Running at low heart rate

Have you done a proper MHR test? Stuff like 'extremely high heart rate (the average was around 172 bpm, on hilly routes)' is pretty meaningless.

I can kind of relate to you, and encourage you to actually try runs at that pace for a good block of time.

I ran competitively for a long time, and almost always did runs at high heart rates. By definition a run of 2 hours or so can only be done at a certain intensity, but even those I was in what many would call the tempo zone. I doubt I ever did anything in zone 2 and never in zone 1. Using these results (effectively all tempo, LT, Vo2, and anaerobic work), I got decent results but always had worse relative results in vo2 max intensive races (3k, 5k) compared to 1500m, 800, or even longer like 10 miles or HM.

Fast forward, I got into cycling, and started training like I did running. Then I started to regularly use a HR monitor and power meter, but analyzed how pros train via their strava. I noted just how much time they spend in zone 1 and 2, and how rarely their "intervals" see them get into LT and VO2 level HRs. Yes they put a lot of power (equal to running fast), but that effort for them is easier. So I started to do the same--all zone 1 and 2 for a few months straight, maybe with some easing up to zone 3 for periods every week or so. The results were amazing--even for an experienced athlete, I improved performance dramatically across the spectrum, even to my huge surprise, short high intensity efforts like 2 or 5 min all out. I never once touched that HR or power output for 3 months, but improved at it all from aerobic development.

Give the low HR training a try (after you determine properly what rates that should be), and I predict you would be running the same speeds as you do now on a daily basis but at the proper HR within 6-9 months. Then you can run that speed all the time and continue seeing aerobic improvement.

Yeah, I've done the MHR test, it's 195 bpm.

Anybody?

This is the right direction. It's the same foundation that african running and the daniel's formula is based on. You're basically running slow to run fast. Low intensity runs ( preferably long runs) to workout the heart, thus strengthening your aerobic base, which will strengthen your endurance to hold a fast pace in races

Your heart rate should be a lot slower during these runs, and there should be very little lactic build-up, which is why a runner can build up a lot of training miles at that pace.

It should be 59% to 74% of your VO2Max

I find that I can get into a 1-pace rut where I'm running at high HR like you describe all the time but I can't really go much faster in say a 10k race. I don't know physiologically what happens but I get better results and stay healthier if I mostly stay in the easy zone and concentrate the faster running into two or three workouts each week. Your max HR is similar to mine. my easy running window is about 130-140 bpm.

Kimi, your max HR is comparable to mine six or seven years ago. It was 200 back in 2006 and has now fallen to about 189 or so. I've worn a HR monitor for the past decade. So I've got a lot of experience.

I'd say that 90% of your training should be somewhere between 70% and 80% of max HR. For you, that's 136 to 156. I take 4 easy days a week--3 to 5 miles as easy/recovery pace--and I would certainly never exceed 80% on those days. 70-75% would be normal, and on days after very hard workouts, I might dip a little under 70%.

The first mile is always the slowest and SHOULD always be the slowest.

With long runs, I almost always keep it easy in the first half--between 70 and 80%. More often than not, I pick it up in the second half, at the turnaround point in an out-and-back route. In many of my 14 mile runs, every single mile has a slightly higher heart rate: 14 in a row, starting very easy and ending with something around 90% of max or (on great days) a little more. But it's not uncommon for me, in the 7 mile return leg, to hit 85%--which is basically marathon pace--and hold it for three or four miles, then slowly crank things down to 88-89%, with a final push.

Sometimes, early season or when I'm racing 5-10Ks and don't need long stamina runs, I'll just stay easy the whole way.

80%, by the way, feels quite hard early in the run but quite easy later in the run. For me, this is a key point: give your body a chance to slowly open up. One of the great gifts of HR training is that you begin to realize that the space between 75 and 82% isn't a fixed "thing," but can have quite a range of perceived efforts, depending on how skillfully you ease into it.

Finally, heat, humidity, and radiant sun will impact the HR you can maintain at a given pace quite profoundly. If you fail to hydrate on a LR, you'll pay the price.

As for other sorts of workouts: 89-91% is tempo run territory. I run the lower part of that sliver earlier in the season and the higher part when I'm coming close to racing shape. 92-93% is 10K pace (critical velocity in Tinman's terms), and 95% is 5K pace.

None of these things are fixed in stone; they're just general guidelines. Good luck!

You should google "Hadd approach letsrun." Hadd has a great essay comparing easy aerobic training to squeezing toothpaste out of a tube.

Here you go:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=580962

Here's the core of the Hadd plan, explained well by "Pete":

The basic principles are that workouts and easy runs should be based on appropriate effort, rather than pace, and effort is measured by watching the heart rate via a heart rate monitor. The body adapts based on how hard the heart is working, not what speed the legs are moving. The heart isnt aware of external factors (heat, humidity, wind) the way the legs are. Adaptations in the muscles are dependant on the rate that the heart is pumping and rate of lactate accumulation and dissipation.

Phase I (where you should begin) concentrates on aerobic base development. It makes you stronger than an ox, and ready for Phase II. Both Phases are mostly easy aerobic running, with (normally) two work sessions and a longer run each week.

Here's the gist of Phase I:

Buy an HRM and learn to love it.

Determine your HRmax plus or minus a couple of beats. You MUST know this number to get to work. Dont guess or use textbook formulas. Theyre useless. If you dont know your HRmax, go to the track and do a good warmup. Run 800m all out. Suck wind for maybe 30 seconds, then run 400m all out. The highest number you see on the HRM during this workout will be close to your HRmax, within a couple of beats.

Start running at 75% of HRmax, or less, every day until you work up to being comfortable running 50 miles per week of easy mileage. At this point, you will begin to add in aerobic work sessions. These work sessions will be guided by HR, not pace. Dont worry about pace, but track it so you can see the improvement over the year. Keep the HR within the intended zones.

Space the work days two or three days apart. The body needs this recovery time to be able to adapt to the work youve done. A work day would be either a workout, long run, or race. Never do more than three work days in a week. Often (ie. when on is a race or particularly hard workout) you will only do two work days in a week. Sometimes you will do one, or none.

During Phase I, you concentrate on aerobic work sessions, and the idea is to "lock in" each HR range until you could run at that HR all day (well, 60 to 75 min) without slowing down. You do this progressively, starting with lower HRs and shorter "intervals," and over the weeks ratchet up the duration of intervals, total duration of work, and working HR levels, or maybe shorten the rest between intervals.

But don't move up until you've mastered the level you're already working at.

So you might begin the program (after getting to 50 mpw of easy running comfortably) working at 80-83% of HRmax on Tuesday and Friday, and stay with that levels until you can comfortably complete an hour of work without slowing down, and knowing you could keep on going at that effort and pace. As the pace-HR relationship gets locked in, you can up the second work session to 82-85% of HRmax.

So week 1, maybe you do 2 x 20 min @ 80-83% Tuesday and then 30 or 40 min @ 80-83% Friday. Next two or three weeks, maybe stay at that HRs, but get the sessions up to 2 x 30 then 60 min continuous for 80-83% work, and then maybe start to ease in something like 2 x 12 min, 2 x 15, 3 x 15, 3 x 20, 2 x 30, 60 continuous for 82-85% for the second workout, instead of something at 80-83%.

Over the following weeks, work up into higher HR ranges, with similar interval progression.

Again, don't move up until you've mastered the level you're at, keeping HR and pace steady, and finishing knowing you can keep on keeping on. You want to finish every work session feeling fresh, like youve worked but you know you could continue at that effort. If you feel spent at the end, youve gone too hard, and need to ease back.

Work at this until you're at about 85-88% HRmax for 60-75 min continuous at a steady pace feeling like you can keep going, and you're an aerobic monster, ready to tackle Phase IIa. It will probably take anywhere from three to eight months to get to that point, depending on many factors.

In Phase IIb (after IIa, which I won't try to describe in more detail than the previous post), which is similar to Phase I, you get back into aerobic work sessions, but you should see the pace has improved at every effort, and you're working toward locking in the pace-HR relationship at up to 88-90% HRmax, which is what a well-trained (aerobically well-trained) athlete can expect to average for the marathon (someone without the aerobic development might expect to average maybe 85% HRmax for the marathon).

A couple of other notes:

Hadd likes doubles when the mileage starts to creep up there. Instead of running 13-15 miles on an easy day, maybe run 7 in the morning and 7 at night. Try it once a week and see if you can manage to add more.

The warm up and cool down for Phase IIa work sessions or races should be much better. For warm up, do three miles or so, and include 6-8 minutes at about 82-85% HRmax, and run three or four 75-100 m strides at the end. For hard workouts (say a fast set of 400s) you might want to cool down for up to 45 minutes easy running to clear the lactate, but definitely cool down at least 20 minutes after Phase IIa workouts or races.

You will find that pace at certain HRs will vary depending on conditions. If it is hot and humid, expect to run 10 to 30s/mile slower than youd like or expect. Dont worry about it thats just the way it is. On these days, stick with the target HR and dont worry about pace. The heart has no idea how humid it is outside or what pace youre running, and it doesnt care either.

As a final note of caution/advice, the one thing that's easy to underestimate is the whole psychology of getting on the program.

I found it EXTREMELY difficult to buy into the concept cold. There's just too much about it, to me, that's counterintuitive... running slow to get fast, yeah, sure! The thing is, you work hard every week, but preserve yourself most of the rest of the week so you can give the work sessions an honest effort and get the maximum gain.

The other thing I found is that it's VERY difficult to get into the program and stick with it without always thinking "gee, this slow running is probably making me slower, I better do some fast running" and then cheating the program. Dont cheat by throwing in some extra fast runs. It will hurt you, not help you. Last year I cheated quite a bit. I improved at all distances, but not very much. This year, I have not cheated at all, and have made more substantial improvements.

So you can't underestimate how difficult it is to START and then STICK WITH the program. But if you do, youll be pleased by the results.

Pete

RE: Results from Hadd's approach to distance training? 10/1/2004 3:12AM - in reply to Pete

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Damn, one more thing...

Lotsa folks, especially younger runners, find the pace at 75% HRmax to be intolerably slow in the beginning. Hadd will let people start out their easy days at up to 80% in the beginning (if, say, 75% means 10 min miles). But this is done with the full intention of moving the easy stuff down to 75% as the pace improves over time, and then keeping it there.

Over time, 75% HRmax should give you M-pace plus 75-90s, or thereabouts, which is easy, but not ridiculously slow.

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=580962#ixzz4fC7DyOUW

Thank you for your answer!

I could complete a 10 km run (with 90 m elevation) at 148 heart rate around 11:40 min/mile pace, at 160 heart rate 10:25 min/mile.

I started training with the Maffetone low-HR method last fall, and had to slow my runs from 8:00 miles (150s HR) to 10:20 (135). Now I am running 9:10 at 135 and my legs feel amazing all the time. My speed workouts have improved as well. By next fall, hoping to be back near 8:00 or at least 8:30 pace but 20 beats lower, with a much-improved aerobic system. My recovery is phenomenal even after hard track sessions (little or no soreness).

Mafftone works for me too. On easy days, i don't exceed the high aerobic HR that is calculated by 180-age +5. But, i haven't decreased this each year i get older.

This max also works for easy cycling, though i'm working a bit harder on the bike at that HR than i am running.