100 speed of milers

brazilian marathoner wrote:

I know that Ovett has tried a 200m... he writes in his book. I am not sure but I believe he's run 21.7. That would mean he was able to sub 11.0.

Ovett's 100m PR is 11.8.

Brazilian Marathoner wrote:

Nonsense. 11.8 is 47.2 pace.

Ovett only had 47.5 because he basically never ran the 400m. Coe was capable of 45.8 and Ovett could run at least a second faster than that 47.5. And yet you claim he was not able to break 11.8? Gimme a break...

P.S: Allyson Felix is a 400m runner and not a 100m runner and yet she could run 10.9 under a 21.7 200m. Ovett would run at least 11.1 / 11.2.

Actually, Ovett raced 400m a lot as a junior, and ran 4 x 400m several times after that.

And, to correct my previous post, Ovett's 100m PR is 11.5.

Add 0.24 for FAT and I rest my case.

brazilian waxer wrote:

Actually, Ovett raced 400m a lot as a junior, and ran 4 x 400m several times after that.

And, to correct my previous post, Ovett's 100m PR is 11.5.

Mo Farah is much faster than Ovette over 1500 and is terrible at the 100m. Couldn't break 12.5

Nah but Mo Farah can do 100m faster trust, he'd be very tired after the race and to break his fastest 100m time even from a running time would be extraordinary, i'm pretty sure he could do high 11 at worst.

I wouldn't agree on Ovett running 11.1 but I could see some milers threatening the 11.0 barrier, possibly going 11.1 / 11.2. Coe has run 11.3 for the last 100m of the Europa Cup in 81 (semi finals). Certainly when rested he was able to run under 11.0, and from the blocks a 11.1/11.2. Now the question is whether Coe is the fastest miler ever over 100m or not. If there's someone faster than him then this runner would be able to run very very close to 11.0 or maybe dip under.

I think they could go faster than 11.8 if they just worked on their block starts a bit. I ran a 11.9 FAT from blocks when I was in 1:55/4:25 shape. (I ran the 400 a bit though, so practiced blocks, and was a "sprinter/jumper" first 3 years of HS). I never ran a timed 100 when I was in faster 400 shape, but imagine I could have gone 11.7-11.8 or so even though I was far from elite. I'd think an elite middle distance runner (true 800/15 runner, not a 5k-10k runner who could drop down and run elite MD times) could be reasonably in the low 11s with some practice with blocks and explosive starts.

Saying "if only they practiced starts" is like saying "if only Mo or Tadesse worked on their endurance they could run 2:02". It is not a given, and if anything being a middle-distance guy means you will never have the explosiveness to gain that additional 0.5-0.8 sec, period. Just like Usain is never going to run a sub-2:20 marathon, no matter his training.

Middle94 wrote:

Mo Farah is much faster than Ovette over 1500 and is terrible at the 100m. Couldn't break 12.5

Ovett is much faster over 800 than Farah

Gag Order wrote:

Saying "if only they practiced starts" is like saying "if only Mo or Tadesse worked on their endurance they could run 2:02". It is not a given, and if anything being a middle-distance guy means you will never have the explosiveness to gain that additional 0.5-0.8 sec, period. Just like Usain is never going to run a sub-2:20 marathon, no matter his training.

By practicing starts I mean maybe an hours worth of practice to get the basic form down so they aren't falling out of the blocks. It wouldn't make a 0.5-0.8 sec difference, but would allow them to finish. My point was that I would't be that surprised if someone who was 6-10 seconds faster than me in the 800 were also 0.5 seconds faster than my 11.8 in the 100.

oldmanriverguy wrote:

Gag Order wrote:

Saying "if only they practiced starts" is like saying "if only Mo or Tadesse worked on their endurance they could run 2:02". It is not a given, and if anything being a middle-distance guy means you will never have the explosiveness to gain that additional 0.5-0.8 sec, period. Just like Usain is never going to run a sub-2:20 marathon, no matter his training.

By practicing starts I mean maybe an hours worth of practice to get the basic form down so they aren't falling out of the blocks. It wouldn't make a 0.5-0.8 sec difference, but would allow them to finish. My point was that I would't be that surprised if someone who was 6-10 seconds faster than me in the 800 were also 0.5 seconds faster than my 11.8 in the 100.

To clarify - I"m pretty sure I can't beat every elite miler in the 100m... i'm sure a lot would run faster than me.

There is a lot of twaddle in this thread.

The most obvious one is that because Farah has a faster 1500 pb than Ovett then his 100ability must be better. Rubbish.

Ovett was competing 30+ years before and his ultimate 1500 potential is at least the equal of Farah. A 3:30 in 83 would be at least a 3:29 on the super fast mondo track of Monaco with the sort of pace and competition Farah faced.

Ovett started off as a sprinter and moved up to 800 in mid teens. He has run 21.7 for 200 from blocks as a teen. He would have experience of blocks. Anyone running that fast for 200 must have been capable of 11.2 at the least for 100 from blocks.

As he moved up to 800/1500 he never ran competitive 200's in his best years, but a 46.8 400 relay in 79 indicates sub 22 200ability and probably 11.5 for 100 from blocks.

Coe ran a 45.5 relay in 79 and a 45.6 from a stumble in 81 90 mins after front running 1:44.0. He also ran a series of 200's in training as a benchmark to when he was in his best shape, and the fastest last rep he achieved was 21.6. If that was at end of a series and with sub 46 open 400 ability, he must have been capable of below 21.5 fresh from blocks. With just some rudimentary training on starts, anyone with sub 21.5 ability can run a 100 from blocks in at least 11.0.

Now there will be a few elite 800 runners capable of that too, but I can't think of any elite (3:30/3:48 as stipulated at start of thread) milers who could run as fast as Coe over 100m. He is the only sub 3:30 guy to have run sub 1:42 for 800 and the only 3:30 athlete who has gone sub 1:43 and 47 for 400m. In fact I don't think any sub 3:32 1500 runner has broken 47 in an open 400m.

Therefore, if no 3:30 1500 guy could match his 400speed, then no one is going to have better 100 speed.

Thank you for countering mere bog-standard twaddle with Super-extra-special-in-the-know-out-of-this-world twaddle.

Here's what Ovett actually did one day in 1978, one of his best years.

19.08.1978 Brighton National League 100m 11,5 (2.)

19.08.1978 Brighton National League 1500m 4:08,1 (1.)

19.08.1978 Brighton National League 200m 22,9 (1.)

19.08.1978 Brighton National League 4x400m 47,4 ( - )

Which only goes to validate my suggestion that he would still have been capable of 11.5 in his best years when running mainly 800 and 1500.

That was a very heavy day, so no doubt had he just focused on one event he could have run 11.3/11.4 and 22 low for the 100 and 200 respectively, from blocks.

If Ovett could do that in 78 when running a 46.8 relay and an 800 pb of 1:44.09 (and he was capable of faster), then that also gives credence to the suggestion Coe could have run 11.0 and 21 mid in 81, when he was running 45.6 and 1:41.7.

Then please enlighten us with which bit is twaddle and offer some pearls of wisdom!?

Words are cheap if you can't offer any evidence to back up vague statements.

Just so you know Randy Moss ran 21.8 when he won state title 200 meters in west virginina. Pretty sure he and Ovett could do better than that with a months dedication to that distance

TrackBot wrote:

VDOT for 1:00 0.4km: 68.9

Equivalent race times based on VDOT:

Marathon: 02:25:04

Half marathon: 01:09:16

15K: 00:48:10

10K: 00:31:24

5K: 00:15:07

3Mi: 00:14:34

2Mi: 00:09:23

3200m: 00:09:20

3K: 00:08:42

1Mi: 00:04:23

1600m: 00:04:22

1500m: 00:04:04

I am a bot. Info: habs.sdf.org/trackbot

TrackBot! you suck

Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!

There's the Deano part of the Deano-Ventolin True Time (tm) for Coe and Ovett's 100 times. Now we need VENTO!

As to the actual argument, Coe wins without doubt. No other WR holder at 15/mile was also world-class at 400.