How much faster should a teammate be before he can't train with you effectively?

1630 and 1830 are incompatible.

So is the maximum possible gap 1:00? or 40 seconds?

The rule of thumb we use is 30 seconds. For example, if someone is 30+seconds faster than you in a 3 mile then you shouldn't be anywhere near them on easy runs, long runs etc

No wrote:

The rule of thumb we use is 30 seconds. For example, if someone is 30+seconds faster than you in a 3 mile then you shouldn't be anywhere near them on easy runs, long runs etc

I disagree about the mention of easy and long runs. I think runners at very different talent levels can run together often on easy days and long runs. There are so many other factors there. Some people just tend to run a bit faster or a bit slower on easy days or the faster guy could be wiped from doing more mileage and need to recover a bit more on his easy day. You really don't think a 15-flat guy should be doing an easy 10 with a 15:30 guy?

But yes, for workouts teammates at very different ability levels shouldn't be training at the same pace. Otherwise one or both are compromising their own workout.

I ran a 2:44 marathon but train with people running 5h. Depends on your training style. I trained high volume last marathon cycle, so was grateful getting in miles with people when I could; often running 9:30min/mi and even slow as 11min/mi during easy runs.

Some of my buddies running closer in the 3h range were more picky about who they ran with; but their training style was different than mine. They ran marathon pace every run.

A lot depends on what sort of training you're doing and how you're defining "with you." In 1960, when Lydiard's guys were prepping for the Olympics, they usually all got together for their Sunday 22 miler. Lydiard ran it with them. So you had a group of sub 4:00 milers and sub 2:20 marathoners doing a main run with a 43 year old man who was ten years removed from his marathon PB of 2:38. It worked out pretty well for them. More than a decade later when Lydiard was coaching Richard Tayler to his gold at the '74 Commonwealth Games 10,000 (27:46) he frequently ran with Tayler.

Ron Clarke always trained with a big group. They'd meet at a horse race track each evening and run for an hour or so. Eventually no one in the group was as fast as Clarke even though there were other Olympians in the group. There were also "club runners" there. And they all trained together, at least for a time. They'd start together and the pace would pick up as the run went on. Guys would hang onto the front until they couldn't and then drop back and finish on their own or with others who were running the same pace as they were.

Obviously, if you're doing track work you probably wouldn't want a 16:30 guy running the same times as an 18:30 guy. But they still could be on the track at the same time doing the same reps but with different times. Or the 18:30 guy could be doing, say 200s and hanging with the 16:30 guy who is doing 400s but at the same pace as the other guy's 200s. I occasionally did a session of mile reps with a friend whose best marathon was 2:16 at the time when mine was 2:41. He wanted to do 6 x 1 mile in under 5:00 with a mile in 6:00 for recoveries. So I ran with him on his recoveries as my reps and jogged on my own to recover for the almost five minutes when he was doing his fast reps.

The thing to remember is that ANY running you do will improve you unless you're exhausted, injured, etc. That's not to say the faster guy is doing optimal runs going with the slower guy. But he is improving. Lydiard's comment on this was "You can never run too slowly. But you can run too fast."

It depends on how you set up the rest of training and how much each has trained in the past.

For example, without worrying about exact details, in HS, 20:00 guys in their first year can train with 17:00 guys in their third year if the 20 min guy has the weekend off and the 17 min guy has both a race and a long run on the weekend. On the other hand, if you have a third year 20 min guy and a first year 17 min guy, they are even closer to being able to train together with the correct program details.

No, they aren't going to run the same number of 1 mile reps on Wed in identical times but if the 20 min guy only runs the first 3 laps and maybe does 3 reps rather than 4, it can be worked out.