9:21 indoors = 9:05 outdoor?

If you have not been doing intervals (as you clearly say) then I think sub-9:10 is a slam dunk unless you ran that 9:21 in a Hoover race. You have nearly all of March, all of April and May. That is 12 weeks, so I would shoot for 8:59.

Also, kind of depends on what kind of weather you have been running in. If you are in a warmish-state, you will improve less. But if you are in MI or NY or somewhere cold you will usually pick up 10-20 seconds between March and June.

Even-split every race and don't go out in 4:28 right away, but you already know what going out in 4:38-40 feels like. So, first good conditions race take it out in 4:36 and try to run another 4:36. If you crack, you will still run fast enough to break 9:20 probably.

Then just climb the ladder and go out in 4:34, then 4:32, then get in a top race where you can have 2-6 people pull you through the 1600 in 4:28 and then just try to run 68s until the last lap.

9:05 would be great, but 8:59 would be legendary.

Unless it was a 160 track, 9:21 indoors with no wind and controlled temp, equals 9:25-9:30 outdoors. From what I've seen, many training programs are more effective mid season than late season. If you are not a frosh, which a 9:21 would suggest you aren't, the best way to tell what your improvement will be would be to look at past seasons.

Well it's kind of hard to gauge that just because my training is a lot different than it was a year ago and i have improved a lot since then

Yeah I live in Ohio so the weather is pretty much the same as MI, but thanks for that! I will defifntly keep a lot of that in mind this outdoor season

Honestly I know that by the time outdoors rolls around you'll be feeling good. If you can run 9:21 off of "no speed" then I can see sub 9:10 for sure. In college we have conversion factors for 200m flat tracks but if it was any larger than that or banked then there is no conversion. Other questions to ask are: what is your mileage at and how do you feel on workouts and easy days? Also it was a good choice by you(or your coach) to run workouts conservative at the beginning of the season. If you want to last through June when most state meets are, then you can't be dead. A very jack Daniels approach in my opinion.

Chickens Hatching wrote:

Unless it was a 160 track, 9:21 indoors with no wind and controlled temp, equals 9:25-9:30 outdoors. From what I've seen, many training programs are more effective mid season than late season. If you are not a frosh, which a 9:21 would suggest you aren't, the best way to tell what your improvement will be would be to look at past seasons.

In the midwest, we run on 200m flat mondo tracks mostly. I have always found that even though I was running 7 days a week and running 50 mpw, then 60, then 70, then 80 I always (without exception) improved from indoors to outdoors. A lot.

I always started the current outdoor season at just about where the last one peaked at.

9th grade ind = 10:43 out = 10:20

10th grade ind = 10:15 out = 9:50

11th grade ind = 9:33 out = 9:23

Yes, there is no wind, and the temp is controlled. But for the 3200m the temp is too hot and the air is dry, and all the oxygen gets sucked out of the fieldhouse at places like EMU, UofM, MSU, and even the greatest Michigan runners ran slower indoors than outdoors.

So basically you haven't gotten any faster in 9 months (9:23 in the spring, 9:21 know)? 9:10 would be a great result. But you never know. We had a guy who ran 9:10 as a Junior indoors. Dude didn't run with in 15s of that time for the rest of his career. He just had one day when everything worked out. He did consistantly run 9:27 and 4:28 miles though. Who the heck knows where that one race came from.

When I was in high school, one season I went 9:23 in/9:10 out. 9:05 is probably doable.

Asphalt Hero wrote:

Honestly I know that by the time outdoors rolls around you'll be feeling good. If you can run 9:21 off of "no speed" then I can see sub 9:10 for sure. In college we have conversion factors for 200m flat tracks but if it was any larger than that or banked then there is no conversion. Other questions to ask are: what is your mileage at and how do you feel on workouts and easy days? Also it was a good choice by you(or your coach) to run workouts conservative at the beginning of the season. If you want to last through June when most state meets are, then you can't be dead. A very jack Daniels approach in my opinion.

I feel really good during all my workouts except normally the week after a race my steady states would feel a little tough but I only raced like 3 times so that probably why, but right now I'm running 65 miles a week an ill get up to 75 and maybe a little higher. Funny you mention the jack Daniels approach because we do take that kind of approach to the training

At your high speed the banked track actually slows a runner down, so factoring in the more gradual bends you should run about this same time.

No one knows what you'll run outdoor. But, assuming that you're training well and that your coach is not racing you too much, the biggest determinant of your PR this Spring will be what races you're in.

I've found that a lot of guys with a sub 9:10 HS PR ran in fast races (e.g., Arcadia, Raleigh Relays, NBON, etc.) in good conditions with great competition.

If you're like most guys, your coach will have you running everything from 800 to 3200 week in, week out and you'll be running against weak competition. If that resembles your situation, running 9:05 is going to be tough.

Doesn't mean that you don't have the potential to run 9:05, just that you didn't get the opportunity.

Good luck in your quest.

Jakooo wrote:

So just finished up my indoor season ended with a pr of 9:21 for 3200, training wise it's all towards outdoor. I haven't even hit my peak mileage yet and workouts normally consist of shorter fartleks, hills and steady state,tempos, and cruise intervals. And my main goal now for outdoor is to try to hit a 9:05. Is this a good goal? My 5k PR for xc is 15:21 if it helps. Thanks guys

I am not that concerned with your 5k PR as it was a bit of an anomaly and you didn't fare as well in the state meet. With your 3200 time, which you ran twice this season, that is more indicative of where your fitness is, especially compared to your outdoor PR from last season that was in the 9:30s (but at the beginning of outdoor that then got slower).

You will need to make sure you do not get slower in outdoor like you did last season. 9:21 is definitely within striking distance of 9:05, so there is no reason to not try to do that. It is a little harder for you than some because you run in a part of the state that doesn't have the same level of competition as other parts. Get into some big races. Maybe even try to get accepted to the Eastern States meet in KY and run there. You have a great chance to run 9:05 and then you can work on breaking 9:00 as a senior. Good luck.

I mean yeah the 5k time was a lot faster than my other times that year but I think that was more of me peaking out at the wrong time. My coach has coached many years but my sophomore tracked season we switched to high mileage (which is new to him) and have been making tweaks every season to try to peak at the right time. And like I said my training is a lot different than what it was last year but yeah i should get faster because we are waiting with the speed work so we peak at the right time and yeah I'm gonna go down to eastern relays and run the 3200 and that will be my only 3200 during regular season so I don't over race. And thank you

Jakooo wrote:

I mean yeah the 5k time was a lot faster than my other times that year but I think that was more of me peaking out at the wrong time. My coach has coached many years but my sophomore tracked season we switched to high mileage (which is new to him) and have been making tweaks every season to try to peak at the right time. And like I said my training is a lot different than what it was last year but yeah i should get faster because we are waiting with the speed work so we peak at the right time and yeah I'm gonna go down to eastern relays and run the 3200 and that will be my only 3200 during regular season so I don't over race. And thank you

That is awesome that you get to run at Eastern Relays. You may be able to run a very fast time there. Apparently your training is working. 9:21 is the best time you have at any distance. Keep at it. Your state has a ton of great runners in it right now, so under 9:10 this season even won't be unique (some schools may have two runners who do that - Watkins, Thom. W., Solon, St. Ignatius), but still, that's a great accomplishment for a junior and should get you noticed by some D1 coaches. Your plan should be LOW 15s or under in CC in the fall and then sub 9:00 for 3200 even as early as indoor on one of those great 300 meter tracks. Go for it.

it's all about the peak, and more importantly, what place you finish at the state meet, young one. don't worry about time and don't be the kid that runs 8:59 a month before the state meet and then gets 11th place in the 3200m at state.place. place place. be a winner. be a state champion

Jakooo wrote:

So just finished up my indoor season ended with a pr of 9:21 for 3200, training wise it's all towards outdoor. I haven't even hit my peak mileage yet and workouts normally consist of shorter fartleks, hills and steady state,tempos, and cruise intervals. And my main goal now for outdoor is to try to hit a 9:05. Is this a good goal? My 5k PR for xc is 15:21 if it helps. Thanks guys

Thank you! And Yeah my main goal is to get top 5 at state this year which is gonna take a sub 9:10. And actually that's exactly was I want to do haha, thank you for your input!

dont jackoofff, wait til state wrote:

it's all about the peak, and more importantly, what place you finish at the state meet, young one. don't worry about time and don't be the kid that runs 8:59 a month before the state meet and then gets 11th place in the 3200m at state.

place. place place. be a winner. be a state champion

Jakooo wrote:

So just finished up my indoor season ended with a pr of 9:21 for 3200, training wise it's all towards outdoor. I haven't even hit my peak mileage yet and workouts normally consist of shorter fartleks, hills and steady state,tempos, and cruise intervals. And my main goal now for outdoor is to try to hit a 9:05. Is this a good goal? My 5k PR for xc is 15:21 if it helps. Thanks guys

Oh trust me a top 5 place at state is what I want more than anything this year.

Jakooo,

Congrats on beating your goal already. Nice job!

Guy who knows things wrote:

Jakooo,

Congrats on beating your goal already. Nice job!

Thank you very much!!