Doping problem comes to Ultramarathons

Caffeine is small potatoes here. The “line” with PEDs is really quite simple: One either breaks WADA rules or they dont. Sure there is “gray area” but I like to focus on the heavy hitters breaking the rules. And yes, I drink copious amounts of coffee!

jesseriley wrote:

I’m guilty on the caffeine, every other day anyway. As Voltaire said, it must be very slow poison, after 70 years.

S. Canaday wrote:

Caffeine is small potatoes here.

The “line” with PEDs is really quite simple: One either breaks WADA rules or they dont. Sure there is “gray area” but I like to focus on the heavy hitters breaking the rules.

And yes, I drink copious amounts of coffee!

jesseriley wrote:

I’m guilty on the caffeine, every other day anyway. As Voltaire said, it must be very slow poison, after 70 years.

With a few exceptions, ultra running has no big money, and therefore not a lot of PED issues.

Or so I think. Hoisting a trophy has value.

On a personal level, I'd consider a steroid cocktail flavored with heroin if I knew for a fact it would boot sciatica out of my life.

I think there is plenty of incentive. Sure there isn't much actual prize money at most events (save for Comrades which is about $68,000 to win this next year), but sponsorship could mean a whole change in lifestyle and quitting your day job. Add in some really good international travel perks to some of the most beautiful places on Earth and a boost in social media following (good for some egos I guess) and there is a recipe for cheaters. Plus it is like the "wild west" with a lack of testing.

TheOhioState wrote:

S. Canaday wrote:

Caffeine is small potatoes here.

The “line” with PEDs is really quite simple: One either breaks WADA rules or they dont. Sure there is “gray area” but I like to focus on the heavy hitters breaking the rules.

And yes, I drink copious amounts of coffee!

With a few exceptions, ultra running has no big money, and therefore not a lot of PED issues.

Or so I think. Hoisting a trophy has value.

On a personal level, I'd consider a steroid cocktail flavored with heroin if I knew for a fact it would boot sciatica out of my life.

Yeah clearly there are folks right on the cusp of being good enough for a sponsorship. Their options look like (1) keep that desk job and look good in local races and top 20 in some nearby national races, or (2) take a little dope, get sponsored, run full time and see the world. What have they got to lose? Get caught, and they can just go back to a desk job.

Collin wrote:

Dean Karnazes was reported as cheating by cutting the course at Badwater the last time he ran...If he cheats by cutting courses, there's not exactly a low chance that he's using PEDs as well, even though he isn't and never has been a fast runner.

How in the hell does one cut the course at Badwater? I thought it was all road, through the desert and small towns along the way to the Mt Whitney's portal.

Collin wrote:

Do you have particular people in mind that are doping, or do you just think that, out of all of the random guys running fast mountain times, some people are slipping under the radar? This is Let's Run. If you suspect specific people, you should call them out. :)

I'm not pointing fingers, but I quick search on I Run Far for doping nets some interesting results.

As a trail runner that has won some modest prizes in trail races I can definitely see the potential temptation to dope. I've won a handful of trail races and never once have I been tested in the US. It would be fun to dope and see how much faster I could be and maybe get a small sponsorship or free gear but I could never rationalize decision personally.

I definitely think you could get away with it if you really wanted to but I doubt many US ultrarunners do. Most of the big races are testing now and with small races the prize money just doesn't seem worth the risk even if you rationalize the cheating by thinking everyone else is doing it. Maybe if you thought it could earn you a big sponsorship but I don't think many trail runners are getting more than free shoes and a travel stipend.

Maybe some top MUT runners are doping or going into the grey zone but I doubt it's many.

Sage seems to think it's a big problem so I'd love to hear some specifics. Why do you think they're doping Sage? Is it the margins they beat you buy and how often they can race at a high level or have you actually seen or heard concrete evidence?

S. Canaday wrote:

I think there is plenty of incentive.

Sure there isn't much actual prize money at most events (save for Comrades which is about $68,000 to win this next year), but sponsorship could mean a whole change in lifestyle and quitting your day job.

Add in some really good international travel perks to some of the most beautiful places on Earth and a boost in social media following (good for some egos I guess) and there is a recipe for cheaters.

Plus it is like the "wild west" with a lack of testing.

TheOhioState wrote:

With a few exceptions, ultra running has no big money, and therefore not a lot of PED issues.

Or so I think. Hoisting a trophy has value.

On a personal level, I'd consider a steroid cocktail flavored with heroin if I knew for a fact it would boot sciatica out of my life.

There are incentives, for sure, but nothing like professional sports.

Maybe you could address it by percentages: What percentage of ultra runners are using PEDs, and what percentage of pro baseball/basketball/football/T & F are using?

Regardless, it's a problem.

By the way, I wonder how many men in the country are on supplemental testosterone and still competing in 5k and beyond events?

jesseriley wrote:

I’m guilty on the caffeine, every other day anyway. As Voltaire said, it must be very slow poison, after 70 years.

Jesse Dale Riley? Trans America?

Testosterone use for men over 40 went from 0.8% in 2001 to 3% in 2012; with this rate it is likely over 5% today. 25% didn't even have their T levels tested before being prescribed. Basically, doctors are handing this scrip out to guys over 40 that just complain about being "tired" etc..

https://www.livescience.com/37101-testosterone-therapy-prescription-increase.html

Considering the athletic benefits of testosterone, it seems reasonable to conclude that use among masters athletes might be considerably higher than 5%, especially among podium contenders.

You said “most of the big races are testing now.”

No, they arent testing that much....if they are it is usually a race day test we all know about months in advance. No surprise tests. They barely do real PED tests ever.

I’m not saying its a “big problem”...I think it is just a small percentage of some top runners. Guys have already been busted for things like EPO at UTMB and other mountain races. Obviously I’m also biased becasue I’m sponsored and financially invested in the sport. I’m also just saying there is plenty of money/incentive to dope IMO.

Yes, I believe vanity and the temptation to artificially fight Father Time leads many to turn to cheating with testosterone and other questionable methods. The fact that ultras draw from an older population might mean the percentage of cheaters is equal or greater than the road racing scene. Unfortunately we live in a time where pharmaceutical companies actively promote their products and there is a general undermining of personal integrity and responsibility for ethics in all institutions including sports. Those that cheat should not be allowed to participate in the sport if caught.

S.O.W.P.

I always recommend long walks if possible (for every ailment), and if you want an adrenalized session, try the Owl Walk.

Try a mountain trail at night with an unlit trailhead. Walk around for about 45 minutes until your eyes adjust (it usually works even in rain, fog, whatever). You may want to carry a trekking pole or stick (but don’t use a light) because you’ll soon feel like you’re being tracked by predators, once you’re on the trail. All your senses will ramp up. It’s like a horror film, but it’s all-natural.

Yes, Trans Am! Still trying to figure it all out.

Even without big prize money there is still always temptation out there to cheat. I RD a few races and have seen people cheat frequently. Drives me crazy especially when some aren't doing it for money but to just sit on their couch and say yeah I ran it in 22 hours instead of an honest 24.5 hours.

That's crazy to me; why not just make it up or train a bit harder. I understand more the sub elites where you are so close but yet so far for really making it. You train really hard but then get injured and over trained and think, "I'm talented and work hard so I deserve to win," and then you delude yourself into thinking everyone ahead of you must be doped , so you take a shortcut t o get to the next level. I still think it's pretty rare though.

Sage constantly talks about doping to justify his poor/mediocre performances

The truth is that he just can't hang with the new guys coming up in the ultra world - they're faster & stronger than him. So let's not blame it on doping.

In a sport where only 2-3 people probably make 100K a year, I wouldn't worry too much about doping.

The financial incentives just aren't there. This sport is an absolute joke from a $ perspective.

As a MUT runner myself, I was always confused on why people would dope (or what they would even use for ultra running) given the lack of prize money. But, like Sage said, though a prize purse may be modest, you can make up for it in sponsor podium bonuses, growing social media followings, and future sponsorships. I do think there's a cost gateway though - can't imagine too many professional MUT runners are springing for EPO. So are we thinking testosterone? Or weed (ha! Let's not get into that debate).

I have heard, anecdotally, that doping in triathletes is actually much more rampant in the age groupers. They've got the disposable income and the ego to boot...

itshappening wrote:

As a MUT runner myself, I was always confused on why people would dope (or what they would even use for ultra running) given the lack of prize money. But, like Sage said, though a prize purse may be modest, you can make up for it in sponsor podium bonuses, growing social media followings, and future sponsorships. I do think there's a cost gateway though - can't imagine too many professional MUT runners are springing for EPO. So are we thinking testosterone? Or weed (ha! Let's not get into that debate).

I have heard, anecdotally, that doping in triathletes is actually much more rampant in the age groupers. They've got the disposable income and the ego to boot...

I just don't see it man...

There's just no rewards in this sport, even for epic performances.

Probably 2-3 guys make $100K a year and the rest are barely scraping by - or in best case scenario they're getting free shoes and free travel (say $5-10K per year).

It's completely illogical to suggest that people would dope in order to get essentially minimal financial rewards.

Sage Canaday will always say theres doping in ultras, but the guy is just making up excuses to justify his fall from grace in the sport. He got beat by hobby joggers and stay at home moms at UTMB - the guy just doesn't have it anymore, so he makes up excuses to justify his own mediocre performances.