Half-marathon: What's the ideal mileage?

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Where are you starting from?

Are you looking at breaking a particular time?

slow-twitch guy wrote:

I'd really like to do my best at the half-marathon distance. More precisely stated, I'd like to train specifically for it. What weekly mileage should I shoot for? In addition, what should the distance of my long-run be?

If it matters in your answer, I'm pretty close to a pure slow-twitch guy, as the nickname states.

Mileage you should shoot for, the most you can do without injury, where you can recover and maintain your life. There's a lot of variation here depending on your life and requirements. I'd think most people could get out 40miles per week which could get you close to a 90minute half.

What are your previous races, distances and finishing times? How are you currently training? What has you last 8 weeks of training consisted of?

Distance of long run, maximum you can do and still recover. 90minutes would be good though, up to 2hours.

If you cannot repeat your previous week, you've done too much. If you can repeat your week, increase the following week by ~10%.

As a very basic outline you would be looking at something like. One long run, one medium long run, one day of intensity, one day of hills, recovery runs ontop of that.

Agree that 40 mpw for a normal build up should be able to get an average person to around a 90 min half with even pacing. All depends on what you're after. More mileage will get you to a faster half, generally speaking.

If you can do weekly runs of 4-6 miles at half marathon pace while also doing a weekly interval session and long run of 12 miles then you should have your half marathon pace locked in. I'd struggle to run more than 6 miles at half pace during a normal training week but I'm also more of a fast twitcher.

Good luck.

What do you mean by "ideal"? Ideal for your situation, or like you're an elite trying to run as fast as possible and have the resources to try how you need to?

In response to somethinglikeant,

(1.) I'm 31 years old and male. I've been running for 4 years. I can currently handle 1 hour of running per day. I have a lot of trouble with slow running (8 minutes+ per mile). So I rarely attempt long runs, as they really kill me, but I'm willing to try to work up to the ability to handle them.

(2.) A numerical goal that I'd like to target is sub-90-minutes.

However, my main goal at the moment is to be able to put in a performance in the half-marathon that is equal to my performances at shorter distances. In other words, I'll look at a running calculator (Jack Daniels VDOT Calculator seems to get the closest to me) and see that my mile, 2-mile, 5k, and 10k times are all relatively close to the projected equivalent, no matter which time I put in, but my half-marathon time seems to show a big drop-off in performance, compared to the projected equivalent.

So I believe that this means I'm under-developed aerobically. I know it could also mean that I'm a purely (intermediate-) fast-twitch guy, but here's why I think it's the former rather than the latter: I've been running for 4 years. I can & do run 8 miles per day. My mile PR is 5:53...yet I can't muster anything more than 1:19 in the 400m. So I'm betting I'm almost purely slow-twitch, but with under-developed aerobic capacity somewhere.

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In response to rundork,

I really appreciate the info., esp. that I should try to make my way up to 90-minute+ long runs.

To answer your questions,

(1.) I race a lot of 5k's, as my area has mostly these distances for races. I also run a 1-mile track race every year, and a 10k hilly XC race every year. Half-marathon is not something I do every year, and I've never run a marathon. I time-trial myself at least twice per year in all distances up through half-marathon. In all distances except for 2-mile and 5k, my PR was run solo/alone in one of those non-race time-trials.

My PR's:

400m: 1:19

800m: 2:44

1 mile: 5:53 (although it was windy that day; I think I could do 5:51)

2 miles: 12:38

5k: 19:50

10k: 41:53

half-marathon: 1:37:15

(2.) & (3.) I'm currently running about 8 miles per day. During the spring, summer, and fall I run mostly on trails and grass, with a few track sessions...but now that it's the winter I'll be almost exclusively on the treadmill.

Right now, a comfortable training pace is progression from 7:50-ish down to 7:20-ish across the first 2 miles, then holding 7:20-pace for the next 3 to 4, and then increasing speed to whatever my legs feel like (usually 7:00, sometimes faster) in the last 2 miles. I don't do any of this intentionally; rather, with every run (been like this for more than a year now) I just start at whatever pace I'm feeling, and naturally across the run my body gets comfortable and just goes faster. Sometimes I'll start much faster, sometimes I'll never speed up, but most runs these days mirror the progression above. Once per week I try a "long run" of 10 miles. Sometimes I complete it successfully (usually at 7:45 to 7:30 pace), sometimes I'm just done by 8 miles, and struggle the last 2 miles.

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In response to Donuts time,

Thanks for the info. & suggestions, esp. that I should look into trying to do some interval work.

Question: Is it possible to do interval work on a treadmill? (or something that would mirror the benefit?) If so, what should I try?

the haddite wrote:

What do you mean by "ideal"? Ideal for your situation, or like you're an elite trying to run as fast as possible and have the resources to try how you need to?

I was sort of figuring that the ideal number of miles might be the same for any kind of runner, but I suppose that's probably a stupid assumption.

So I guess I mean ideal for my situation, given the information I provided in the post just above this one, and given that (1.) I don't have time for doubles now, but will in about a month, (2.) the half-marathon that I'm targeting isn't until September, 2016, so I have plenty of time, and (3.) I do not have a budget for massages, personal trainer(s), or special equipment found outside the average gym.

2 runs a day Mon-Sat and a long run Sunday. 2 hours of running a day. Race 20-30 times a year at various distances. Run fast when you feel good, slow when you feel bad. That's about it.

More than you currently do. If you're running 50 shoot for 60. Add in repeats appropriate to your target race distance. For HM, shoot for mile repeats at race pace, 400's/800's/1000's faster, and tempos slower than HM pace. Mix it up with hills, fartleks, and occasional sprints.

Usually I'd say just run more, but with only a 1:19 400 you could improve a lot in terms of speed with little effort. Your stride would feel more powerful and fluid, and it would help at all distances. Check out this post for ideas.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=27488#28417

agc5k wrote:

2 runs a day Mon-Sat and a long run Sunday. 2 hours of running a day. Race 20-30 times a year at various distances. Run fast when you feel good, slow when you feel bad. That's about it.

Yepper

agc5k wrote:

2 runs a day Mon-Sat and a long run Sunday. 2 hours of running a day. Race 20-30 times a year at various distances. Run fast when you feel good, slow when you feel bad. That's about it.

Thanks for the reply. I'll definitely try to work up to this.

Get some speed too wrote:

Usually I'd say just run more, but with only a 1:19 400 you could improve a lot in terms of speed with little effort. Your stride would feel more powerful and fluid, and it would help at all distances. Check out this post for ideas.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=27488#28417

Thanks for the reply. I read that post at

, and I have a question: should these 200's be done before a normal run or after said run?

(1) You need to get comfortable with slower running, and longer running. If you can't run slow, you're not getting the benefit of recovery runs and slower long runs. If you can't run for more than hour without trashing your body, you're not going to perform at your best in the HM.

-- I somewhat doubt your pure-ST'ness based on this point, and the fact your performance drops with race distance. This point is also evidence of being "aerobically underdeveloped".

(2) Not knowing your schedule and workouts over the last few years, I can't really say why you're not performing better at X distance. My guess is, at 8mi/day, you're just not training in the best manner.

(3) The races you listed doing every year... sounds good! I wouldn't worry about running a marathon at this point. I think if you train smarter and improve your weak points, you can hit 90min HM. If you're actually ST, you should see a big improvement.

(4) I disagree that you need to focus on doing more interval work at this point. You need the opposite.

(5) With what you said in response to how you define "ideal mileage" in mind... For now, your ideal mileage will be somewhere above 56mpw (probably peaking at ~75mpw with the HM so far off). Now, if you're talking ideal in the sense of being a bada$$, you'd probably be around 80-120mpw depending on whether you're FT or ST and how you respond to the volume. But right now, you just want to build on what you're currently running and remedy the problems you're having.

My advice: Start following a legit training program. Right now, train to peak at 5k half-way between now and Sep, and then deload and do a HM-specific schedule for the Sep race.

Thanks for your opinions & suggestions, haddite!

Based on what you said,

~ I will try to acclimate to slow running for some runs. At this point, I'm going to try to do it once per week, unless you think that's the wrong frequency.

~ I'm intrigued that you think there's a chance that I'm FT, since that implies to me that I also have underdeveloped speed, and perhaps a higher ceiling / lower times in me than I thought!

~ How many months should I wait until I try to work on intervals?

~ So I'm guessing that I should follow a 5k training program for 4.5 months and then a half-marathon training program for the remaining 4.5 months?

~ Do you have any recommendations for training programs?

- If you want to peak for a 5k before the HM, I would start a base phase relatively soon. In this block, you should really start out with the majority of your running at recovery pace and easy/steady pace. You should also be doing some strides and hill sprints as speed base and speed maintenance. There will be other paces run, but they are just here-and-there at first.

- I mean, I don't know you and I haven't seen you run, etc. but it's a little weird that you can't handle slower running, your times get worse as the distance goes up, and you're running 8mi/day but 60+ minutes of running trashes you. It just seems unlikely you're on the ST-extreme side of the spectrum. Hey, I could be wrong!

- It depends on what you mean by "intervals". I would introduce some short, fast ones towards the end of the base phase. As you get closer to the 5k, the majority of the intervals will increase in length while the intensity of these intervals will start to match your goal 5k pace.

- Roughly 4.5/4.5 split. Doing 4/5 for 5k/HM, respectively, would be fine, too.

- If you're really serious about maximizing your HM potential, of course a coach would be the way to go. If you don't have the funds, Brad Hudson's "Run Faster" is a nice book with some good training plans.... just remember, the plans are just plans; you have to listen to your body and adjust the training as necessary! Once you get faster and start understanding training methodologies a bit more, you can read/follow stuff by John Kellogg, Steve Magness, and Renato Canova. (They're similar to Hudson, but the latter coaches generally cater their writing to pretty fast runners... so it can be hard to apply it to a slower runner.)

Btw, there are probably plenty of people on here that will coach you for a modest fee or for free -- myself included. If you're interested, we can talk and see if the fit is right.

When you say you're trashed after an hour, what does that mean? What do you feel like? Does this mean your legs can't handle it, you run out of breath or you just want to stop?

It seems more mental than physical if you can handle faster running over a shorter period of time but can't handle slower running for an hour-plus. To get better at all distances, but especially the HM, you need to work on your aerobic fitness and get used to running long. For a lot of people, that means slowing down from their normal pace and extending the run.

If you're doing these all solo, I would look for friends or a team to help you extend your runs and keep you occupied rather than thinking about ending your run after an hour. I think most of us have experienced that feeling when we start doing longer runs, and it just takes physical and mental conditioning to break that barrier and then run even farther the next week.

Ideal mileage is individual. As someone said, it's probably the most you can do without getting injured. If you're running 8/day already, I'd shoot for 65 mpw with some variation in your daily workouts. Two key workouts for the HM are the long run and the tempo. Long run should get up to 2 hours and you can find tempo paces in the Daniels book since you mentioned VDOT. Good luck.

I'd make two changes in what you're doing.

First, it's a bad idea to run the same mileage every day. You need stress; you need recovery. Since you've already said that you have a hard time running slow, your easy days are 8 miles at a medium pace. That may be an easy day for an Oly qualifier; it's not an easy day for you.

So I'd experiment with running shorter and slower on at least three of your days, and lengthening those 8 miles a little.

I'd also extend your long run to 14-15 miles. Go easy the first half, harder the second half if you're feeling good.

You're absolutely right: you need to extend your aerobic capacity. You also need to build in real rest--easy days--along with the work.

Here's a possible weekly schedule:

M: 4 easy

T: 5 easy

W: 9-10 progression run: easy for first few miles, then crank it down

T: 4 easy

F: 9-10: 3 easy w/up, 4-6 at marathon to half-marathon pace, 1 w/down

S: 4 very easy

Su: 14-15, with an occasional run of 16-18. Run second half fast if feeling good

OP is a troll. No one is this dumb.