How fast do you have to be for running to significantly help in D3 admissions?

I ran d3 at an academically competitive and running non-competitive east coast LAC.

It's fine to contact a coach and arrange an athletic visit. Worst comes to worst they don't respond and then you're no worse off than you were applying without their input. Especially if you get under 2 in the 800 in the outdoor season, start contacting folks. It might make the difference. might not.

I was talking to coaches at similar schools a couple years ago with similar questions. As for the mile, anywhere in the 4:40s is probably too slow to get you any help with admissions. Wesleyan is the weakest program you have listed and I would guess you would have to at least run around 4:30 to get significant help. Don't know about the 800. Don't really know about Bowdoin but I would think mid-high 4:20s for the mile could put you in the conversation. At any rate talk to coaches at the end of this year and the beginning of next year. Worst case scenario they'll tell you that they can't really do anything to help. Even if they can't give you any help, they will likely be able to give you a pretty accurate idea of what your chances would be ED or RD which can be very helpful in making a decision about applying early (which I would definitely suggest doing if you are borderline for your top choices).

I think you need some typical Letsrun truth. I think you hit the bottom line answer yourself:

"I have been injured for much of most of my high school running seasons so I don't have a very good sense of how well I could do."

All the coaches are going to figure this out and not waste any of their influence on your admissions.

Look, college admissions are made or broken on your junior year grades. You still have half of your first quarter left. Start studying like there is no tomorrow if your want to get off the borderline for those schools.

By the way, there is no leg up, there just aren't enough spots on the team for that anymore. There is recruited, where the coach tells them that you will help the team and not recruited where running counts like the cricket team.

Don't quit running, sticking to something for 3+ years counts more than bouncing around, but the admissions people just like to know that you didn't just study all day. To get into the recruited pile you are going to need to be injury free for the next year AND show improvement because of it for coaches to help you when you can't even say you want to run in college.

FWIW, Haverford's coach discussed, but never formally offered, admissions help for my son IF he applied Early Decision, which he was unwilling to do.

He was already a good academic candidate (4.2+ GPA; ~2200 SAT) and had times of 4:3X low and 9:4X high as a junior. He was also a low 16s guy in 5K XC as a junior.

He ended up walking on a D1 team at a top 20 academic university (with zero admissions help other than running was a very strong extracurricular activity in his application).

Not fast enough, sorry kid. If you can get closer to 4:20 and 1:57-58 then you're in business.

At Bowdoin, I was told I needed to run around 9:35 or 4:25 to be truly recruited, but that I certainly wouldn't be the slowest kid on the team and could certainly walk on. Probably similar for the other schools, maybe a little easier. For the 800, sub-2 would likely be the threshold, or a tiny bit faster.

I am a big Haverford supporter. You can't quite compare what Donnelly can do to other D3 coaches. He is an institution. Part of the reason he is an institution is because he doesn't over reach and support just anyone.

Having said that, my guess is that all Haverford Early Decision candidates with 4.2+ GPAs and 2200 SATs who have run 12 seasons and have finished where low 16s will place in most state XC meets get in with or without Tom's blessing.

My contention is supported by the fact that your son got into a top 20 academic institution with only extracurricular help from running.

I live close to Bowdoin and watched their last home meet. For the most part the bulk of their top 5 XC team is 26-27+ over 8K. I think one kid on the team broke 26 on a very flat course. I know someone a few years back who ran 4:30ish. I don't think they have much depth in track beyond maybe a few guys here and there. Contact the coach, I know he is a pretty likeable guy.

Every school is different in this regard, some have policies specifically against help like this, where as other schools might reconsider a borderline kid if they have an athletic interest, but I know of no D3 schools that have admissions "tips" anymore. (not to say they don't exist, but everyone at schools A, B, and C seem to think X, Y, and Z have them, and the coaches at X, Y, and Z think that they have it at A, B, and C; when in reality, none of them do.)

What gets confusing is that schools in the same conferences often can admit the same kids that other schools denied. Everyone has their own metric for success.

Early decision is, by and large, the best way to go if you want to get in someplace. I doubt it's related to coach's help.

SonOfRitz wrote:

I live close to Bowdoin and watched their last home meet. For the most part the bulk of their top 5 XC team is 26-27+ over 8K. I think one kid on the team broke 26 on a very flat course. I know someone a few years back who ran 4:30ish. I don't think they have much depth in track beyond maybe a few guys here and there. Contact the coach, I know he is a pretty likeable guy.

I think they actually had a guy run in the upper 4:1x's a couple years ago

I was recruited to and accepted at Bowdoin with 1:59, 4:25, 9:33 high school PRs.

3.8 gpa in high school and 2000 on SAT.

I was recruited at all of the D3 schools I contacted (NESCAC mostly).

Unless you are a female, these times are average for a HS runner. (There's a joke in "Once a Runner" about everyone being a 4:30 miler.) You will have to contact a coach about going through the recruiting process (if possible) or if they can provide any help with an admissions decision as a member of the team (everyone is a walk-on in D3). Otherwise, it's good to indicate your interest to run track/XC (or any other extra-curricular) activity in your applications essays. Focus on your grades and a school that's a good fit for your academic interests, and there should be plenty of opportunities to walk-on the a team at a D3 school.

I'm assuming for the purpose of this hypothetical that I could manage to go through the next year without injury. If that were the case, mid-4:40s and maybe a sub-2:00 would be fairly realistic. If I can stay healthy for long enough to get in some good enough times, I would most likely want to run in college, or at least try it for a year. Whether running could help me in the short term might affect, for example, whether I decide to run indoor this year (which I haven't thus far due to busy winters for other extracurriculars). I plan to run 3 seasons next year, but for this year it would be a big enough sacrifice for my other activities that it might not be worthwhile if it won't help me enough to get me anywhere. I can't see my times going that much farther down this year though (the times listed above would already be a modest improvement and my times are sort of stagnating). Does anyone have experience taking up indoor late in highschool and having it be significantly helpful?

Also, what about xc? This is sort of a wildcard for me as I was VERY mediocre in 5k until recently and I don't know how long I can keep improving at this rate (I cut like 2 min this season so far). Again though I'm just not that physically gifted in distance running so I doubt that I could go lower than, say, mid-16s in highschool. Would this get me anywhere?

It doesn't sound like you are going to run the sort of times that will get you admissions help. As with most things, make a decision about what effort to put into running based on how much you enjoy it.