Shelly Anne Fraser and Usain Bolt went from 11.35 to 10.76/10.03 to 9.69 in ONE YEAR

Don't be intentionally misleading. Their SBs improved like that, not their PBs.

before her 10.78 in 2008 and 11.31 in 2007, SAFP's fastest was 11.57. Usain Bolt's only recorded time according to IAAF.com prior to 2008 Beijing was 10.03. Their remarkable improvements are nearly impossible without drugs

Eric Jenkins went from 13:27 to 13:07 in one year and is now joining the highly controversial Nike Oregon Project. A training group that plenty of people in the track world have pointed fingers of suspicion of doping despite lack of surmountable evidence, like Conte's allegations of drug use. Thus the parallel of Jenkins is similar enough when we're talking about a multiple time world and Olympic medalist as well as the 100 and 200 meter record holder. Are you also going to say that this one year progression of Jenkins from a 2014 13:27 to a 13:07 (making him the youngest American to ever run that fast) is equally impossible? If not, then your thread doesn't carry universal merit of suspicion for just anyone with a drastic seasons best change at a high level of competition due to your bias against these particular athletes in question.

Jenkins had roughly a 2% increase in performance.

SAFP had roughly a 5% increase in performance after being stuck at 11.5-11.7 for at least several years. Please don't compare a 5k to a 100m

800man! wrote:

Eric Jenkins went from 13:27 to 13:07 in one year and is now joining the highly controversial Nike Oregon Project. A training group that plenty of people in the track world have pointed fingers of suspicion of doping despite lack of surmountable evidence, like Conte's allegations of drug use. Thus the parallel of Jenkins is similar enough when we're talking about a multiple time world and Olympic medalist as well as the 100 and 200 meter record holder. Are you also going to say that this one year progression of Jenkins from a 2014 13:27 to a 13:07 (making him the youngest American to ever run that fast) is equally impossible? If not, then your thread doesn't carry universal merit of suspicion for just anyone with a drastic seasons best change at a high level of competition due to your bias against these particular athletes in question.

He linked the podcast. Conte gave specifics on Bolt and SAFP. So let's keep to the subjects at hand - the 2 JAM sprinters who have made remarkable improvements. Just because other athletes aren't mentioned doesn't mean they are above suspicion and I don't see where the OP has implied such a thing.

these are facts wrote:

before her 10.78 in 2008 and 11.31 in 2007, SAFP's fastest was 11.57. Usain Bolt's only recorded time according to IAAF.com prior to 2008 Beijing was 10.03. Their remarkable improvements are nearly impossible without drugs

Bolt didn't start running the 100 until relatively late, 2007. But he'd been running under 20 in the 200 since he was 18 (19.93 in 2004). So to suggest that he was running mediocre times prior to 2008 is mistaken.

Jenkins PR was never 13:27. He ran 13:18 years ago.

Something substantive to add wrote:

these are facts wrote:

before her 10.78 in 2008 and 11.31 in 2007, SAFP's fastest was 11.57. Usain Bolt's only recorded time according to IAAF.com prior to 2008 Beijing was 10.03. Their remarkable improvements are nearly impossible without drugs

Bolt didn't start running the 100 until relatively late, 2007. But he'd been running under 20 in the 200 since he was 18 (19.93 in 2004). So to suggest that he was running mediocre times prior to 2008 is mistaken.

Bolt has been running the 100m since he was 15 years old.

Better examples of suspicious Americans would be:

Ritz: 13:16 to 12:56 in 1 year.

Solinksky: 13:12 to 12:55/26:59 debut.

Stop making things up. Bolt was almost exclusively a 200/400 runner during his jr years. His first legit 100 was in 2007 where he ran 10.03. He didnt run another one until 2008. So he wasnt some full time 100m guy who was running 10.0-10.1 and then dropped to 9.7. He was a 19.75 200m runner which will typically put you in the high 9.8 to low 9.9 range.

Whether Bolt is on drugs or not, it doesn't help for anyone to give misleading or flat out false info.

Deacon wrote:

Whether Bolt is on drugs or not, it doesn't help for anyone to give misleading or flat out false info.

Whether Bolt is on drugs or not, it doesn't matter. He is the fastest man in the world. If he's dirty, he's the fastest among all the dirty runners, if he's clean, he's still faster than all the dirty runners.

I assume him to be dirty by proxy. It is unfathomable to be that the genetic difference between the fastest man in the world and the second fastest man in the world would be so great that Bolt can be hurt, out of shape, and lacking motivation and STILL beat the healthy, hungry, drugged-up second guy.

Andre de Grasse has only been running track for three years. Look up his story and his times.

a different take wrote:

An improvement of ~5 meters in one year...

Meanwhile Victor Conte gave Kelli White a huge drug regimen and only managed to get her from 11.19 to 10.88...

Any knowledgeable sprint coach will tell you that this is virtually impossible without drugs, if you are already an elite athlete maximizing your training and nutrition...

Conte says that the Jamaicans were probably using 5 or 6 different drugs. In Beijing 2008, the women won gold through bronze in 100m. London 2012, Glen Mills' male athletes won gold through bronze in 200m and gold and silver in 100m...

Around 2:44:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azzhD2QJ8B0

Your numbers are a little off and I don't believe everything Conte says; his speculations aren't facts. I have been talking about the 'Jamaican Miracle' for years. Something magical and statistically improbable happened in Jamaica in 2007-2008.

1. Practically all of the Jamaican sprinters disappeared for nearly 8 months in 2007 to 2008. Except for the Jamaicans living and training in the U.S., no one ran indoors and skipped most of the spring. When they finally appeared in late spring, practically everyone was running PRs.

2, The magic wasn't just Bolt and Shelly Ann, but Stewart, Simpson, Carter and Crater, etc. I thought Foster-Hilton had retired, she ran (12.71) 110h in 2007 and (12.49) in 2008. Melaine Walker nearly equaled her 2007 400m flat time going over the 400 hurdles. Melaine ran the 400h in 54.14 in 2007 and then ran 52.64 in 2008, win's the Olympic gold medal. Melaine went from NCAA athlete to running one the fastest times in history in one year. The Jamaicans weren't just ruining fast, they were all breezing through the rounds at the 2008 Beijing Olympics; they absolutely dominated the sprints. They even won the Women's 110m and 400m hurdles. No one had ever heard of Shelly Ann, she was at the bottom end of the world list. The unknown Shelly Ann wins the Olympic 100m Olympic gold medal. Bolt was never a great 100m sprinter, yet in 2008 he was practically jogging 9.8x in the rounds and then sets then world record in the 100m. He ran 9.69 easing up 10 meters before the finish; he could have run the current world record of 9.58 back in 2008, but it was almost as if someone told him not to run too fast.

3. FloJo went from 11.01 to 9.54 in one year. This is a one year improvement most people find hard to believe, yet Jamaica had about a half dozen athletes make a similar improvement. Incredible things do happens in sport, but the odds of that happening with so many athletes, from the same nation and in the same year is nearly statistical impossible.

4. In 2007 and 2008, Jamaica conducted zero/0/nada/none/no OOC test; in fact, they didn't even do drug testing at their 2008 national championships. Even to this day OOC is a problem in Jamaica. And, the Jamaicans have a way of knowing when the WADA testers are coming because Jamaica only has one international airport and they have a system of alerting athletes a day before the testers arrive.

5. The one Jamaican athlete who did not make a significant improvement in 2008 was Veronica Campbell. You would think she didn't need to improve since in 2007, she was the best 100m sprinter in the world. VCB was living and training in the U.S. and she when home for the Jamaican Olympic trails, her countrymen had improved so much that she almost did not make the Jamaican Olympic team. The number one ranked sprinter in the world in 2007 finish third in the Jamaican trial by a lean. In 2008 VCB had a bitter fight with JAAA and was almost put off the team. VCB has never fully disclosed nature of her dispute with JAAA, which I think continues to this day. You almost never see VCB associating with her fellow Jamaican teammates. I suspect they asked her to get on the Jamaican doping program and she refused. Since 2008 VCB has had a lot of success, but she not a happy athlete and will rarely make any comments about her fellow Jamaican athletes. In just about every interview I have seen her conduct, there is always someone from JAAA standing nearby.

6. I know there good are doctors all over the world, but I am still trying figure out why Bolts repeatedly travels all the way to Germany to see a doctor when the U.S. is less than a 2 hour flight. The U.S. has a few decent doctors.

7. In 2007 Dr. Angel Heredia stated making trips to Jamaica under the name Angel Hernández. Dr. Heredia is a known steroids dealer and former client of BALCO/Conte. Here is the bombshell, Angel Hernández is Usain Bolt's strength and conditioning coach and I think Dr. Heredia now lives in Jamaica and is working with several Jamaican athletes.

...sometimes things seem unbelievable because they are unbelievable

Here are five words for knuckleheads comparing Bolt and Fraser to US distance runners (all of whom have BTW have NO/ZERO/ZIP/NADA World or Olympic medals):

NO OUT OF COMPETITION TESTING

(Jamaica pre-2014)

these are facts wrote:

before her 10.78 in 2008 and 11.31 in 2007, SAFP's fastest was 11.57. Usain Bolt's only recorded time according to IAAF.com prior to 2008 Beijing was 10.03. Their remarkable improvements are nearly impossible without drugs

The reason he improved so much in the 100m was because he was a 400m man. He really wanted to run the 100m but his coach didn't let him but finally relented. Also keep in mind, Bolt ran a 19.93 200m when he was 17 years old.

Do your homework before making accusations.

Yeah.

a different take wrote:

An improvement of ~5 meters in one year...

Meanwhile Victor Conte gave Kelli White a huge drug regimen and only managed to get her from 11.19 to 10.88...

Any knowledgeable sprint coach will tell you that this is virtually impossible without drugs, if you are already an elite athlete maximizing your training and nutrition...

Conte says that the Jamaicans were probably using 5 or 6 different drugs. In Beijing 2008, the women won gold through bronze in 100m. London 2012, Glen Mills' male athletes won gold through bronze in 200m and gold and silver in 100m...

Around 2:44:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azzhD2QJ8B0

Let's play loose with the facts. Bolt had a 10.73 pb because he NEVER RAN THE 100. He was viewed as a 200/400 guy.

Take a look at Bolt's 200m progression. It's incredibly gradual. The kid was a PHENOM at age 15.

2002 20.58 WYB15 Best ever for 15 year old

2003 20.13 WJR WYR WYB age 16

2004 19.93 WJR

2005 19.99

2006 19.88 ]

2007 19.75 AR

2008 19.30 WR

2009 19.19 WR

You act like he came out of nohwere and ran 10.03. Far from it, he was training as a 200/400 guy. Have you ever thought it would be hard for someone that big to be coordinated enough to do the 100m at a young age. History has never seen such a huge 100m sprinter so peopel naturally put him in the 200/400.

So you say he went from 10.73 to 10.03 The results database I list doesn't even have a 100m pb for Bolt until 2007 (10.03) so I guess that was 1006 to 2007.

So in 2006, Bolt was a 19.88 sprinter. You think he could only run 10.73? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. He clearly was averaging sub 10 for 200m!!!!

ok, we have two kinds of people on this thread. The one who know that people from certain country are guilty of using PEDS and one who know that but refuse to see it as truth.

Keep taking the blue pill folks.....

800man! wrote:

Eric Jenkins went from 13:27 to 13:07 in one year...

And seventeen year old Kejelcha improved twenty seconds in one week this spring - what's the 5000 got to do with this, you're not even really a serious medal contender there unless you've gone sub 13 and have Farah's, Bekele's, Komen's, Kipchoge's or Lagat's closing speed).

Bolt stayed off the 100 when he was young because he and his trainer thought 190+ cm made him too long, not until he was a 19.75 guy in the 200 was someone able to talk him into seriously trying the 100.

Also, remember that early 200 man Bolt was a Jamaican team mate with WR holder and then national hero Asafa Powell even BEFORE WC 2007 - there's a fair chance they did some team workouts together and that Bolt starting noticing that he could hold his own against him, maybe even thinking that then all them fine bitches be clinging to him instead... :-)