Strength Training and Building Mileage over summer

slow-guy wrote:

Hey guys,

I am a highschooler looking to take the next step in training over the summer.. I am a state champion in track and have two consecutive podium finishes at the state XC meet, and a goal for me this summer is to develop the strength and endurance needed to challenge for a coveted Footlocker spot.

I want to build mileage from last years 45ish mpw to around 55-60. How should i also incorporate strength training into my routine while building mileage? The last thing i want to do is develop injury from overworking but I feel that the increased workload is logical and necessary to achieve my goals.

Thanks in advance

Pool running!!!

@ayylmao

Thanks for the response. Pool running sounds like a good idea, but i was thinking more about weight room exercises to build a stronger core and overall body. Is building mileage while introducing increasing amounts of mileage advisable or healthy?

What are your high school PRS and your mileage for those PRS? Have you done any strengthening excerices before?

Here is a good idea building non running specific strength to help you stay healthy and efficient.

http://www.coachjayjohnson.com/2011/11/eight-week-general-strength-progression/

Mile Pr- 4:21 (30-35mpw)

2mile- 9:30 (30-35)

5k Cross Country: 15:42 (40-45 mpw)

I have done some strength training in the weight room (lunges, squats) on and off, but probably not consistently enough to make an actual impact. I want to become consistent and develop my strength all while building endurance for the cross season

Use the search, I've written about this a lot.

Look up research. Educate yourself.

Heavy...up to 5 rep max.

Focus on lower body.

Low volume.

2-3 x week max.

Use plyos as well.

Alan

runningart2004 wrote:

Use the search, I've written about this a lot.

Look up research. Educate yourself.

Heavy...up to 5 rep max.

Focus on lower body.

Low volume.

2-3 x week max.

Use plyos as well.

Alan

Alan, ive done this. 5x5 heavy weights, i gained muscle, got heavy and larger tighs. Run 400/800, mostly a pure 800m guy.

Jus skip weights for someone like me?

@runningart2004

Should I start lifting now (on my two week break from track) or would it be better if i wait to give my body rest between seasons?

80000 wrote:

runningart2004 wrote:

Use the search, I've written about this a lot.

Look up research. Educate yourself.

Heavy...up to 5 rep max.

Focus on lower body.

Low volume.

2-3 x week max.

Use plyos as well.

Alan

Alan, ive done this. 5x5 heavy weights, i gained muscle, got heavy and larger tighs. Run 400/800, mostly a pure 800m guy.

Jus skip weights for someone like me?

What was your routine? What was your mileage? What was your weight change? What was your diet?

Alan

-run easy doubles. My senior year I would run 2-3 miles most mornings. This is a low-stress way to get big gains in volume.

-have good long runs. Don't be afraid to hammer your long runs. I did this super hilly trail as a tough long run, and it helped a ton.

-don't be afraid of the weight room. Do some heavy squats, cleans, ext. you won't bulk up, you will be running too much.

-don't hurt your achilles

-especially over the summer, quantity>quality

runningart2004 wrote:

What was your routine? What was your mileage? What was your weight change? What was your diet?

Alan

Ok, routine:

Squats: 5x5, heavy and hard.

Romanian deadlift: Same, and right after the squats

+ core and other smaller things around the gym

I mostly got bigger tighs and ass, i started getting chafin between my tight far up, like groin area.

Mileage: Between 60-50, average probably slightly lower than 55.

Diet: Same as always (norwegian diet):

breakfast: 4 slices of bread with ham or healthy cereal

lunch: same

dinner: meat, rice/pasta, vegetables

Evening: healthy cereal

Not too sure about weight change, probably not too many kgs but i defenitely got bigger in the ass and tighs. Also didnt get any faster with the weight training, but I did neglect sprint training that year....

Heavy lifting - especially doing dangerous / complex lifts like squats and cleans as 2 people have mentioned - is horrible advice for a high schooler with limited experience and supervision. That is an excellent way to hurt yourself and/or negatively effect your running training.

Add some more hills to your running, and do some body weight strength like core, pull-up, push-up, dips, lunges, body weight squats, glute bridges, etc. As a teen the strength is more about injury prevention and training your body to handle future increased mileage than it is about specifically making you faster. The running is still of utmost importance and you don't want to sacrifice good running training to add a bunch of dangerous heavy lifting.

Alan's advice to add plyos is good input. Find a grassy hillside and do some things like skipping, bounding, frog jumps in addition to things like box jumps or stair jumps. Volume should be minimal and only < 2x/wk. 6-8 reps per exercise, start w maybe 1 set of each exercise and build slowly.

Unless you have a good strength coach I wouldn't enter the gym. You can really hurt yourself and move your fitness in the wrong direction. You don't need to squat 2x your body weight to be a fast runner.

SPRINTING is the most specific form of strength training. Don't forget this. Plyos are good, but sprinting makes you fastest. It isn't sexy and you don't see x-fitters doing it. But sprinting Is the BEST for making you fast.

Add 4-6 30-60 meter strides at the end of your workout. Do them really fast. Wait 2-3 min between each rep for 100% recovery. Do them on an uphill 50% of the time.

Doing some pushups and pullups is really all you need.

It's not sexy but coach Jay Johnsons lunge matrix is excellent as well.

I used to spend lots of time in the gym hoping it would make me fast. It didn't. I've moved away from the gym and towards body weight and mobility exercises.

bump for alan

80000 wrote:

bump for alan

If you don't know if you actually gaIned weight I can't see a problem with what you were doing. Keep it at twice a week..warm up/ramp up to a 5 rep max. Doing straifgt

The best advice so far. I would add mileage (3-4 miles in the am or pm) on days and if you are worried about strength do hills and sprints. The worst thing for running is gaining weight. People who run and lift and get faster does not mean lifting makes one faster. The question should be, if they tried a different approach would it be more effective? I agree with Alan that you should educate yourself. How many studies of people running and lifting have incorporated national class runners? Very few (check out pubmed.org or jstor.org). Most elite distance runners don't use heavy weights. If they could all of sudden do heavy weights and get better, they would. It is not as if people don't or haven't tinkered with their training. Hills are a weight bearing exercise (ie so is running), so you are not only working on strength you are working on the exact motion you use while running, so it works on economy/efficiency as well.

Write this down 1000 times:

1. Successful runners are typIcally genetically wired to NOT gain mass.

2. Runners putting in an hour of running a day will not have the protein surplus available to gain muscle.

3. Runners would need to consume massive amounts of calories to even think of gaining muscle.

Someone may have the perception that they gained weight but unless the scale shows an increase over daily fluctuations their perception is not based on reality.

Studies, even some using recreational runners, have shown plyos and heavy weight lifting improves running economy. The issue is the carryover to high level runners. Due to practIcal concers studIes are typIcally done on the untraIned as they provIde a "blank slate". Also, good luck fIndIng a bunch of hIgh level runners to study. HIgh level runners are already close to maxing their performance and you are simply not going to notice a difference in performance because they have already done so much which also improves running economy (sprints, hills, total lifetime mileage). The main benefit for high level runners is reduced injury risk and extended careers due to reduced injury risk and maintaining testosterone levels.

Very low volume. Very high intensity/weight. This will improve max strength. This is why running economy improves...improving the force potential in the working muscles. Other ways of improving running economy (miles, sprints, hills) improve your running efficiency or how your body moves through space.

Here's a simple strength workout that shouldn't take more than 30min

Box jumps: as high as you can go for 3 jumps, increase height by 1-2in each set, max of 5 sets

Squat or Deadlift (alternate from workout to workout): warm up, ramp up to a max set of 5

Dips & pullups: 3 sets max strict reps.

Do the above twice a week on your most intense running days as a secondary workout preferably hours after your run.

Example:

Box jump: 24 x4, 26x3, 28x3, 30x3

Squat: 95 x5, 115x5, 135x5, 155x5, 185x4

Dips 3x10

Pullups 3x10

On your second workout do Deadlifts instead of squats.

For detailed instruction on squats and deadlifts look up Mark Rippetoe'd vids on youtube. Best basic barbell instruction I've seen.

Also, use common sense with nutrition. The more you are breaking down tissues the more you need to repair them..ie: increase protein intake.

Alan

80000 wrote:

runningart2004 wrote:

What was your routine? What was your mileage? What was your weight change? What was your diet?

Alan

Ok, routine:

Squats: 5x5, heavy and hard.

Romanian deadlift: Same, and right after the squats

+ core and other smaller things around the gym

I mostly got bigger tighs and ass, i started getting chafin between my tight far up, like groin area.

Mileage: Between 60-50, average probably slightly lower than 55.

Diet: Same as always (norwegian diet):

breakfast: 4 slices of bread with ham or healthy cereal

lunch: same

dinner: meat, rice/pasta, vegetables

Evening: healthy cereal

Not too sure about weight change, probably not too many kgs but i defenitely got bigger in the ass and tighs. Also didnt get any faster with the weight training, but I did neglect sprint training that year....

You lifted weights with X muscle groups and they got larger + stronger?

In other words, the strength training worked?

There isn't enough info here to know what to suggest. You mention that you did not get faster, but not if you got slower, or your event(s)/goals, etc.

Obviously, if any muscle groups you are training get too large, you gain too much muscle mass, etc.--and this is reflected in slower times rather than an irrational fear of "bulk" we sometimes see on these boards--you can train to maintain a given level of strength (by not progressing beyond sets of Y for Z reps), or you can discontinue lifting for a period of time. You can also re-evaluate which exercises you are doing, as running uses some muscle groups more than others. Significantly stronger/larger legs, for example, are more likely to be helpful than a significantly stronger/larger neck.

Reading this, perhaps I was a bit naive and consumed too much? Probably.

Regarding 1. I'm no elite athlete and will never be but did run a 1.51 of off not much training. Built kinda like Symmonds, just taller.

Deadlifts: You recommend regular DLs over romanian DLs?

Thanks for all input so far!

Yes, I guess I ate too much and gained too much.

Events: 800, goal to get back to 1.51 shape. That year I did a lot of hurdle jumping and stair jumping. I felt I got heavy, not "bouncy" in my stride, if you understand? But that could be because I didnt do enough plyometric/jumping.

Thanks for the input.