What scientist has it all figured out, reading suggestions please

The only person really who has put the stuff you are after down onto paper is Steve Magness.Read his stuff for an overview of the science. I don't necessarily think you will be able to create the best training by reading his stuff.

iowakidscanrun wrote:

Where can I find a good overview of the science behind this phenomenon and more importantly, where can I read about the best way to train to maximize neural adaptations?

The simplest way to see it is that you lose what you don't train.

You don't need to MAXIMIZE neural adaptations.

You just need to make sure you don't neglect ANYTHING in any week.

Get the book "Building your Running Body" by McGill and Schwartz and I forget the nutrition woman's name but it covers all the extra things you shouldn't neglect.

Daniel's? Seriously? Daniel's? The apostrophe serves a specific function. Just because a word ends in s does not necessitate one.

This board is illiterate. Good grief.

apostrophe abuse wrote:

Daniel's? Seriously? Daniel's? The apostrophe serves a specific function. Just because a word ends in s does not necessitate one.

This board is illiterate. Good grief.

Thanks for the helpful comments. I would hire you to proof my work, but only if you can also work with numbers. How about responding to my question?

lkna79 wrote:

The simplest way to see it is that you lose what you don't train.

You don't need to MAXIMIZE neural adaptations.

You just need to make sure you don't neglect ANYTHING in any week.

Get the book "Building your Running Body" by McGill and Schwartz and I forget the nutrition woman's name but it covers all the extra things you shouldn't neglect.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not suggesting that I want to focus on neural training to the detriment of other systems. Maybe maximize isn't the right word. My point is this is the hole in some of well known training methods. I want to understand the science and close that hole in my own training and in runners I coach.

Limey UK Runner wrote:

The only person really who has put the stuff you are after down onto paper is Steve Magness.

Read his stuff for an overview of the science. I don't necessarily think you will be able to create the best training by reading his stuff.

iowakidscanrun wrote:

Where can I find a good overview of the science behind this phenomenon and more importantly, where can I read about the best way to train to maximize neural adaptations?

Thanks, I'll start reading. Hoping there are some examples out there where the science has been demonstrated in training.

The probelem with sport scientists with a PhD is that each scientist pursues his or her own career with tunnel vision. They write as though their own PhD thesis is the be all and end all of the exercise physiology.

Good luck finding a sport scientist who has a holistic approach, or even one who has read every chapter in the ex phys text books they have on their shelves.

Yes it's important to have that spring in your step when you race or when you do tempo runs.

Perhaps the best way to discuss this is right here with me?

Yorkshire Gold wrote:

The probelem with sport scientists with a PhD is that each scientist pursues his or her own career with tunnel vision. They write as though their own PhD thesis is the be all and end all of the exercise physiology.

Good luck finding a sport scientist who has a holistic approach, or even one who has read every chapter in the ex phys text books they have on their shelves.

Yes it's important to have that spring in your step when you race or when you do tempo runs.

Perhaps the best way to discuss this is right here with me?

I agree with your comment about the academics and realize there is no silver bullet in the literature. Realistically this means we have to synthesize some of this on our own. So Yorkshire Gold, what are your thoughts about the training that is best for improving the neural aspects of performance?

As I wrote on the Daniels' thread yesterday:

Good foot work. You are accelerating your body mass off the ground upwards and forwards at just the right angle, with just the right force. This requires very subtle movement in the feet. Get them right and the rest of your movements should follow, as long as your torso is aligned correctly.

Each stride is an acceleration of body mass even when running at a constant pace. You are both using gravity to propel you forward by storing and releasing elastic energy with each stride, and fighting against gravity to prevent deccelerating.

I believe that the natural talent of most runners is mostly untapped and that very few runners know how to use their feet properly. When they do get it right it tends to happen by accident, and they get that feeling of floating along without physical stress. We all know that feeling don't we? That is the feeling that you are describing in your first post isn't it?. And yes, that feeling often comes after a sprint session. This suggests to me that we can't get that feeling every day and shouldn't try to. Another interesting point is that running fast but inneficiently, when we get tired and out of breath, often helps run more efficiently a day or two later. I can't explain why, but it is part of training lore that over speed work that causes phsyical discomfort is a beneficial part of training. Some people will say that this is because it increases some metabolic processes, but I don't agree. I say it is a neural response, not necessarily an adaption, but a response.

When it comes to racing, confidence is so important in helping get the best out of yourself, and lack of confidence will certainly do the opposite. Running is so much of an emotional experience, the psychology is so important.

Thanks for taking this a step further. I read your post in yesterday in the Daniels thread which led me to start this one since it's not about Daniels a focus on neural training. I would argue the hill session I referenced above is designed exactly to develop skill and strength to propel the body forward and upward. It's also intuitive that overspeed running helps as well.

This raises more questions. What is the optimal dose of this type of training? What explains the 'feeling' of lightness we are describing? How do I know I'm practicing the running 'skill' optimally?

Daniels has a huge amount of information. If only he would interpret it in a meaningful way, the implications would be very profoud, but he can't or won't do it, insted he came up with his silly running formula and his vdot nonsense which assumes that everyone has the same relationship between speed and endurance, when obviously we all have different genetic potential for both.

I think it is important to do some of your hill sessions in a controlled way so that you stop running each effort before you get tired, that way you learn the skill of running against the resistance without losing efficienc and hopefully in a race you have better control towards the end when you would noramally be fighting to hold your stride together. If you try to fight the fatigue, you will get the opposite effect, and not get the same development.

What is the optimal dose of this type of training? Good question, you have to find out for yourself how much will make you too tired to function properly the next day, or lower your immune system. I think it's ok to do very hard session occasionally if they are going well, and other times to stop the session early when it's going well. I prefer experimentation to rigid session schedules, I think you learn more about yourself if you learn to coach yourself, taking as much information from other people and deciding what is good advice and what is not. All of the best athletes I know have a huge capacity for learning.

What explains the feeling of lightness? It's a combination of good technique, arousal level, which comes mainly from the right levels of adrenalin and noradrenalin, not too much not too little and from the positive emotions you feel when this happens, what people call 'being in the zone' when it happens in a training it is a wonderful feeling and when it happens in a race, even more so.

How do you know you are practising the running skill optimally? You get that 'in the zone' feeling, which may happen spontaneously early in your session or it may take a while to begin to happen, which is why top athletes tend to favor a long warm up to get the body moving more efficiently.

Thanks for the additional comments.

I'm tracking with you. I think the advantage of shorter repeats is it allows you to work on maintaining form. Hills naturally force you to at least mid foot and also require you to generate more power. This is a mental shift from doing hill training for the sake of running hills in XC.

It's become more clear to me that all the very best coaches don't work off the same script for each athlete. Understand there isn't a 'recipe', I'm looking for some general parameters so I can fill in the gaps that we have in our training. While running and coaching for me is a hobby, I have physiology graduate training. As a result, all the metabolic stuff is in my wheelhouse, but I admit I have alot to learn on the skill/neural side of things.