Grant Fisher- 14:43 at Portage

If Dathan ran that time his senior year, that is indeed impressive. Ritz is the greatest HS XC runner ever imo. Well be interesting to see how Grant runs at the state meet, where I think Ritz ran something like 14:10. And that's for 5k, not 3 miles.

The MIS course is really fast and flat, but 14:10 is just plain absurd for any grass course at the HS level. That is arguably the hardest course record to break in the United States. It'll be interesting to see if Grant goes for it, or runs for the win at the state meet as he will probably be focused on Footlocker at that point.

Fisher is not only the best HS runner in the country, he is also an academic all-star, and a very likeable young man. He is simply, AMAZING! I can't wait for the Footlocker Regional and National races to watch him break some records! He will be one of the greats in US distance running.

Where will he run in college? Will he go pro?

Michigander wrote:

The MIS course is really fast and flat, but 14:10 is just plain absurd for any grass course at the HS level. That is arguably the hardest course record to break in the United States. It'll be interesting to see if Grant goes for it, or runs for the win at the state meet as he will probably be focused on Footlocker at that point.

I agree it is most definitely in the top 3 of hardest course records to break if not the top (but it is cross so its very subjective since no course is the same)

I would say top 3 in no particular order is

Michigan 14:10 (5k) Ritz (just absolutley insane time for a 5k on grass, no matter if its basically pancake flat or not, if fisher doesnt take it this year it will continue to stand for a very long time in a testament to ritz's amazing talent in HS.)

CA 14:24 (5k) Fernandez (CA is always very deep and german was possibly one of the most talented high school runners we have ever seen, it looks like this one will stand for awhile, still ridiculously fast on a less flat course)

IL 13:50(3 mile) Virgin (extremely flat 3 mile loop producing extremely fast times for awhile now but it has withstood likes of withrow,derrick,torres,jager,LV,spivey, and many others im probably forgetting, this just shows the talent that will have to come through to take it down)

But anyways back on topic, Fisher is looking very strong, if nothing goes wrong this season he may be able to take a shot at the Michigan course record if he wants, and I would say will most likely defend his FL title

Ritz ran high school cross races all-out regardless of the competition. With Fisher being that close to a Ritz course record that is an eye-opener. I doubt the conditions were ideal with the rain and wind in the Midwest the last two days.

So he's now missed Todd Williams' record at Jackson by 2 seconds, and Ritz's record at Portage by 3 seconds... On only about 6 weeks of training after an extended track season and 2 weeks completely off.

Fisher Fan wrote:

Fisher is not only the best HS runner in the country, he is also an academic all-star, and a very likeable young man. He is simply, AMAZING! I can't wait for the Footlocker Regional and National races to watch him break some records! He will be one of the greats in US distance running.

Where will he run in college? Will he go pro?

He can run anywhere he wants to and excel. If he is an academic all-star he should go Ivy League or Stanford or Michigan if he wants to stay close to home. Well that is his decision but if I was in his shoes that's what I would do.

Ran 15:11 at Portage last year by the way.

He needs to be focused on taking down the Balboa course record, not the Mich state meet record. Too many variables at MIS that time of year. Depending in the weather leading up to the race, the course can have a very hard surface (like Ritz's senior year) or, or very soft. Taking down Balboa cements himself as GOAT for US hs runners.Then again, maybe he'll decide take a shot at the legendary NXN course record?.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Hingle McCringleberry wrote:

Michigander wrote:

The MIS course is really fast and flat, but 14:10 is just plain absurd for any grass course at the HS level. That is arguably the hardest course record to break in the United States. It'll be interesting to see if Grant goes for it, or runs for the win at the state meet as he will probably be focused on Footlocker at that point.

But anyways back on topic, Fisher is looking very strong, if nothing goes wrong this season he may be able to take a shot at the Michigan course record if he wants, and I would say will most likely defend his FL title

Fisher better not run NXN and take a legitimate shot at the Foot Locker Balboa Park Course Record... should be interesting.

If he wants that record all he needs to do is be under 4:40 for the mile and do this. Without the let-up at the end that Davis did.

Cheserek would have run under 14:30 if he ran the middle mile hard breaking away on the first hill and hammering it alone.

I thought Rueben Reina had the record, not Marc Davis.

Andrew Hunter just ran 14:46 at the Great American Cross Country Festival in Cary, NC. That time is I think 3 seconds off of McGorty's course record. Fisher (rightfully) gets the bulk of the hype among high schoolers, but I don't think Fisher is a lock to win Footlocker, and he'll certainly have competition. Hunter is only a junior too. The future is bright for American distance running...

Ghost of Grosso wrote:

He needs to be focused on taking down the Balboa course record, not the Mich state meet record. Too many variables at MIS that time of year. Depending in the weather leading up to the race, the course can have a very hard surface (like Ritz's senior year) or, or very soft. Taking down Balboa cements himself as GOAT for US hs runners.

Then again, maybe he'll decide take a shot at the legendary NXN course record?.....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Why, the balboa course record would have been broken by RITZ (the michigan state record holder) if he had ran at the balboa park course. if he breaks the Balboa course record that people will just say "ritz would have broken it anyways, why doesnt he have the michigan state record?" if he break michigan state record and wins FL again he can be very much in consideration for GOAT, and surely if he breaks Michigan and FL, but if he just breaks FL, theres always the arguement that ritz never ran there.

also since he lives in michigan im pretty sure he is not allowed to go to NXN due to stoopid state rules, although im fuzzy on that area i may be wrong.

klf wrote:

I thought Rueben Reina had the record, not Marc Davis.

Correct. And Davis was 2 seconds off. The year Reina ran 14:36 Troy Maddux ran the middle mile hard and only Reina stayed with him. Davis might have broke it if he didn't celebrate and ease it in. I have a VHS tape of Reina's race and he was all out through the tape although he did take the time to put some hand signal up that I always related to surfers when the surf was up.

To break that record the key is the middle mile which has become more tactical with the better depth of high school runners today. That's why the record is still 29 years old.

Davis broke away at the mile and hit the first hill hard and with the turns and then the downhill built a demoralizing lead. That's how that course works. You get too far behind the leader after that hill that breaks away and its over.

Michigan is a great State for Cross Country and Grant is outstanding but do not get too excited about times. West Michigan has a group of coaches that do everything in their power to create "speed courses". For this group it is all about times and very little to do with competition. Short courses are the norm.

Carl the greens keeper wrote:

Michigan is a great State for Cross Country and Grant is outstanding but do not get too excited about times. West Michigan has a group of coaches that do everything in their power to create "speed courses". For this group it is all about times and very little to do with competition. Short courses are the norm.

That seems to be the trend these days. Coaches seem to want their kids hitting "Prs" in cross country these days and hard courses at the high school level are avoided.

I don't know about the Portage Course in Michigan but I have noticed the trend of manipulating high school cross country major meet courses in making them faster the last 30 years.

While west michigan and the entire state does have quite a few speed courses, I would not put Portage into that category. It is accurate and has some hills but usually does have firm footing. Today we weren't sure what we were going to get due to rain all day yesterday and parts of the night last night. The course held up really well and the footing was not degraded much, there were a few loose spots but nothing major. I would not say that the course in general or conditions today qualify it as a fast course, it was a course that if you ran a good race would allow you to run a fast time as it did for Fisher and several other Michigan runners.

The way to find the fast courses is simple. How mant athletes ran their best today? Myself and my teammates all ran pb at both Spartan and Portage every year. It was a rarity for any of us to duplicate those times anywhere else. I am always amazed by how that is the norm for most of us that live in Metro Detroit Area. We never saw another course that runs as fast.