Nation records in losing efforts.

Merry Buddy wrote:

Coburn's steeplechase work is great.

However, question having non-winning times, distances, heights count as national records. Prefer the harness racing system in which only winning times count as personal records.

The first objective is to win the race. The second is to do your best. Secondary marks are fine for resumes but for nation, collegiate and high school records they deserve at best an asterisk. Q

How many American records are based on winning efforts?

You're an idiot.

Lagat totally wasn't trying to beat Mo in Monaco.

You idea is idiotic, Merry. You want to take away all the national records set in the London Olympic 800-merter final? You don't think silver medalists should be allowed to set national records?

so OP thinks Nijel Amos 1:41.73 Botswana NR is weak?

Who among us, while watching a meet in person or on television, has not groused, "I wish track had more in common with popular sports like harness racing"?

Lorenzo the Magnificent wrote:

Who among us, while watching a meet in person or on television, has not groused, "I wish track had more in common with popular sports like harness racing"?

Fantastic, bravo sir.

I am curious though, what are our national records if you have the stipulation that the time must have been a winning effort? Would be interesting to see. I have a feeling our distance records get piss f*cking poor.

Easy to find races full of lousy runners...

Look at Rupp's indoor US records

Boring races however.

I preferred the Olympic 800m final. Thank you. The Botswana guy can keep his NR.

Fucfgcfghgvhvg wrote:

Easy to find races full of lousy runners...

Look at Rupp's indoor US records

Men 3000 m

1 Galen Rupp 86 USA 7:30.16 WL MR PB

2 Caleb Ndiku 92 KEN 7:31.66 WL PB

3 Abdelaati Iguider 87 MAR 7:34.92 PB

4 Paul Kipsiele Koech 81 KEN 7:38.35 SB

5 Hayle Ibrahimov 90 AZE 7:39.59 PB

6 Albert Rop 94 KEN 7:40.16

7 Tesfaye Cheru 93 ETH 7:43.47 PB

8 Aman Wote 84 ETH 7:43.99

9 Bouabdellah Tahri 78 FRA 7:44.18

Rupp's 3000m indoor AR and his outdoor 10000m AR are probably the two best wins of his career based on the competitiveness of the fields. These two marks are also his most significant American records.

So: bad example.

that as of end of season last year the top 5 5000m outdoor USAs came in on average 4th

Lagat-3

Solin-5

Ritz-3

BobK-5

Teg-7

Name calling tsk tsk..

Only the race's winner should be able to set a record.

It is one of the benefits of winning.

Should a runner enter a race with no hope of winng. Sure why not?

Personal improvement is laudable. But national records are standards that should belong to winners only.

Throw another crazy idea out there...no record if pacers are used in the race. In such cases, the race becomes a time trial not a valid competition.

Yes, I am an idiot... So what...the huge majority of Americans who do not know a 43 sec from a 48 sec 400 know Meb won the Boston marathon, and could care less about the time or that of the non-winners. Who cares if a quarterback racks up 600 yards in passing if the opposing team won the Super Bowl.

What Coburn showed me is that she is ready to win another DL race and if she does so running 9:05 or 9:30 is a secondary story.

Very dumb idea, Buddy.

You think this would force people to go for the win more, but it wouldn't. You would just see more sham races set up, like Webb's one mile AR race.

And forget about getting rid of professional pacers, then you just have a huge grey area situation where someone secretly agrees to pace someone else.

that the non-Lagat USA First place 5000 record is

Ben True 13:02.74 Palo Alto 2014

and does not make it onto the Top 500 World All Time performance list.

Using the World Championship schedule as the standard, there are ten individual outdoor track events and six indoor events.

Of these sixteen events, the existing American record was a winning effort in thirteen.

The three exceptions are the 5000m, 3000m steeple and 800m, all outdoor.

That's a greater proportion of wins than I would have thought.

This is a very idiotic idea. It would promote athletes to gp to small meets to get national records. Would somebody running say a 13:00 5k and winning a race where the next fastest is a 14:00 deserve a national title more than somebody that runs 12:52 and gets outkicked by .02 for second place? The only record that should require the win is a world record, for obvious reasons.

Merry Buddy wrote:

Coburn's steeplechase work is great.

However, question having non-winning times, distances, heights count as national records. Prefer the harness racing system in which only winning times count as personal records.

Yes, we should be doing what the harness industry does, because there's a sport that absolutely no one cares about, not even the people who work at the racetracks. It's also a sport where the jockey, who takes several mounts per night, is the primary determinate to the horse's results.

doubledip wrote:

Using the World Championship schedule as the standard, there are ten individual outdoor track events and six indoor events.

Of these sixteen events, the existing American record was a winning effort in thirteen.

The three exceptions are the 5000m, 3000m steeple and 800m, all outdoor.

That's a greater proportion of wins than I would have thought.

that my choice of M5000 showed the exception not the norm and that a sample size of one means nothing.

may I suggest wrote:

that the non-Lagat USA First place 5000 record is

Ben True 13:02.74 Palo Alto 2014

and does not make it onto the Top 500 World All Time performance list.

Why wouldn't you include Lagat? Pretty sure his 12:59 would be the mark under these dumb 1st place rules.

that upon review nobody had mentioned that it would be the record. I thought someone had and my post was to point second in line was over 13mins.

Your idea about setting NRs is silly. If a runner runs the fastest time by anyone from the nation of which he or she is a citizen....even if they were last ...it's in fact a NR. Case closed.

There is a comedy sketch..sorry can not recall the comic..

A guy from some obscure country goes to Olympics...tries the shot put..he drops the shot out of his hand about a foot and a half out into the sector.

He goes home thinking he will be disgraced. Instead he is a hero, having set a national record! He becomes a coach, teaching kids his drop the put method.

By the way, harness racing probably at tracks more people than track in the US....betting helps.

They do not use jockeys...they are called drivers...

Is a track event won by a runner on juice better than a fixed or doped horse race.