HOW HAVE HALL AND RITZ BEEN SO RUINED? (2008 Olympic trials 1st-2nd-8th: Hall (25) 2:09, Ritz (24) 2:11, Meb (32) 2:15)

Meb had accomplished more before 2008 than those guys ever will. 2008 was an off year for him.

SMJO wrote:

Meb had accomplished more before 2008 than those guys ever will. 2008 was an off year for him.

More before AND more since.

That's the amazing part.

Nearly ZERO development from RH and DR. Who was coaching them all those years?

might be rcs wrote:

SMJO wrote:

Meb had accomplished more before 2008 than those guys ever will. 2008 was an off year for him.

More before AND more since.

That's the amazing part.

Nearly ZERO development from RH and DR. Who was coaching them all those years?]

Meb- One coach, Bob Larsen, since high school. Larsen and Vigil are the two best distance coaches in the US in the last 30 years.

Hall and Ritz- impatient coach hopping every couple of years since college.

This is an excellent point. Meb's had Larsen as his coach for what, 18 years?

fdsfdsf wrote:

This is an excellent point. Meb's had Larsen as his coach for what, 18 years?

Wow.

If Salazar is accepted to be the most over-rated marathon coach in the world, Larsen must be the most under-rated.

Remember the old adage, moron.

"You can run worse than your abilities, but you can't run better than them."

spade detector wrote:

Remember the old adage, moron.

"You can run worse than your abilities, but you can't run better than them."

Correct, and Ritz and Hall have better PRs than Meb, and yet...

Longevity, consistency, and internal motivation.

As someone on another thread pointed out, Meb is like Geb. He's been good for a 10 year span. Meb is one of the rare runners to mostly avoid injuries (unlike Hall and Ritz) and to be able to get over and come back from disappointments like 2:23 at NYM just 5 months ago. I think few runners have the desire (or ability to avoid injuries) to keep going at such a high level for so many years. I think with both Meb and Geb, age causes less slowing than we sometimes think.

It's not like Meb (or Geb) has never been injured. He fractured his freaking hip at the Marathon Trials. But he is always patient and smart about recovery, and from what I can tell he does not rush back into racing and training too quick.

Dkny64 wrote:

spade detector wrote:

Remember the old adage, moron.

"You can run worse than your abilities, but you can't run better than them."

Correct, and Ritz and Hall have better PRs than Meb, and yet...

PRs? You are using PRs as your measuring stick? Guess you would think Wanjiru is not one of the 10 best marathoners ever then.

Christ you are dense.

I think Hall was pretty unbeatable that day, I wouldn't be surprised to see him beat a healthy Meb. But still.

spade detector wrote:

Dkny64 wrote:

Correct, and Ritz and Hall have better PRs than Meb, and yet...

PRs? You are using PRs as your measuring stick? Guess you would think Wanjiru is not one of the 10 best marathoners ever then.

Christ you are dense.

PRs plural. Wanjiru had very impressive PRs at 10000m and half marathon, just never got the chance to nail a fast marathon. Ritz has better PRs than Meb at every major distance but can't get it done when it counts. And Hall has the best marathon and half marathon PRs of the three (Meb, Ritz and Hall) but has also struggled on the biggest stages.

All I'm trying to say is that Ritz and Hall may both have more ability than Meb, but Meb knows how to run to his abilities much more consistently than they do.

Wanjiru had massive ability. Unfortunately he also had a massive drinking problem, so we'll never know how good he could have been.

spade detector wrote:

Guess you would think Wanjiru is not one of the 10 best marathoners ever then.

Christ you are dense.

Please tell me this is sarcasm. If not, then you are truly the most dense person here.

What? Meb has a better 10000m PR than both Ritz and Hall, for whatever that's worth. He has clearly always placed emphasis on the important aspects of running - racing and beating people - than finding time trial races to get good PRs. Meb won an Olympic silver medal in 2004. That is the caliber athlete he is. While he has had some duds, he still is amongst the world's best when at his best. Ritz and Hall have never shown that.

OK dipshit. You're saying the same thing as dnky. That was the point of those little words "and yet..." in his original post. He was saying that Ritz and Hall have run faster than Meb (over most distances, not all), yet they haven't won major races like Meb.

thread reader wrote:

Longevity, consistency, and internal motivation.

As someone on another thread pointed out, Meb is like Geb. He's been good for a 10 year span. Meb is one of the rare runners to mostly avoid injuries (unlike Hall and Ritz) and to be able to get over and come back from disappointments like 2:23 at NYM just 5 months ago. I think few runners have the desire (or ability to avoid injuries) to keep going at such a high level for so many years. I think with both Meb and Geb, age causes less slowing than we sometimes think.

Sounds like a lot of coaching errors for Ritz and Hall, then.

thread reader wrote:

Longevity, consistency, and internal motivation.

As someone on another thread pointed out, Meb is like Geb. He's been good for a 10 year span. Meb is one of the rare runners to mostly avoid injuries (unlike Hall and Ritz) and to be able to get over and come back from disappointments like 2:23 at NYM just 5 months ago. I think few runners have the desire (or ability to avoid injuries) to keep going at such a high level for so many years. I think with both Meb and Geb, age causes less slowing than we sometimes think.

Meb was 32 when he had that bad race in NYC in 2007 and didn't qualify for the 2008 Olympics, then found out he had a stress fracture. At that point his career could have been over, but he came all the way back and has continued to come all the way back from setbacks since then. Here's hoping Ritz and Hall, who are both still only 31, can learn from Meb's example and stick with it for a while.

Another comparison is Adam Goucher and Meb. Meb defeated Adam at the NCAA XC championships at Furman. Goucher was expected to be our next great distance runner and suffered from injuries that shortened his career and Meb is still going strong. I would love to know the details of how Meb did this and how his training ideas differed from those who were injured and career never reached the point of Mebs or the expectations that we had for them.

Not sure why people are being tough on Ritz here. He has done reasonably well in the marathon despite that it is obviously not his best event.