Surf wrote:
Arenko,
Yes, you having inguinal hernias is not quite same calculation as sports hernia.
It very well could be the same. Re-read the UEFA document from Dr. M's site you posted a few pages back.
Surf wrote:
Arenko,
Yes, you having inguinal hernias is not quite same calculation as sports hernia.
It very well could be the same. Re-read the UEFA document from Dr. M's site you posted a few pages back.
Germany, here I come! I have been corresponding with Dr. M's office and have confirmed my surgery dates for the last week in August. I don't recall anyone here telling about a bilateral repair by Dr. M. Her bilat repair is a 3 day process...day one is pre-op, day two is right side, day three is left side. I was a bit suprised, I guess I was expecting to have both sides done at once. But it makes sense to do it one side at a time.
I am having a hard time getting anywhere with BCBS. I have an HMO policy and don't seem to be getting anywhere...but I'll keep trying. Also I'm not sure if you are all aware of being able to deduct out of pocket medical expenses on your tax return.....in the USA anyway. If your medical expenses total more than 7.5% of your adjusted gross income, itemize your deductions and put your SH repair costs on there. That route seems like it may work the best for me, but I know everyone out there is in a different situation.
Surf....GO SEE Dr. Meyers or Muschaweck! You are going to drive yourself crazy!
garrett
Surf wrote:
Nobody can yet answer a fundamental question for sports hernia surgery:
After one gets sports hernia surgery and sutures and then recovers, and then begins participating with vigor again in one's sport of choice, what is to prevent one from getting another sports hernia injury?
In fact I've posted a couple of examples of news star athletes doing just this.
Yet no one can answer that question.
Why is this question unique to sports hernia surgery?
I do not know the stars you speak of, but not every surgery is going to be successful. Who were the doctors that operated on these stars? What was their experience? What were there methods?
My $.02 - if you've recovered as you suggest, then I'd guess it will take a long time to develop it again - this is not an injury that happens overnight. Just like a regular hernia does not happen by lifting something heavy. It was coming all along, developing for years. If these sports stars got the sports hernia again I would guess they never really recovered or weren't fixed properly to begin with.
hey guys, I was just wondering why there is a link between varoicelle and or epididymitis and SH or inguinal hernia? Does SH make the vein in the back of your testicle swell? Or maybe the pressure of inguinal canal cause the spermatic cord or epididymis to swell? What's the deal with this?
Do a few of you have this problem or? Or just the guy that posted he had varicocelle surgery and still had sh problems? If I'm not mistaken surf it was you??
ARenko,
I have zero medical credentials.
If someone breaks an arm or playing soccer, the nature of the problem is typically pretty clear, I think. The doctor may operate on it, set it, etc. Many types of breaks (an ancient problem since before the greeks and romans) mend themselves to be as strong as the original bone, or maybe even stronger.
But sports hernia injuries are still little understood, the cause is often unknown. Even Dr. Meyers paper doesn't pretend to fully understand it. Many insurance companies won't even cover sports hernia surgery. Many doctors express reservations about addressing the problem with surgery. Others say surgery is the answer. Some surgeons say mesh is by far the best way. Other surgeons disagree of course.
But my main question again is, if each of us here at LetsRun doesn't know exactly what moves of ours in soccer or basketball or hockey caused our injury, then how can we expect not to get them again if we resume a competitive level of participation in our sport after surgery?
Here's an example of the article you wanted to see:
http://thebulletin.us/articles/2009/05/18/sports/doc4a10cc7d31932965317992.txt
To me it's not good news. But burying one's head in the sand makes a bad situation worse in the long run.
Again, I have zero medical credentials. I'm merely making a conjecture here. I'm looking for some other evidence that would convince me of the opposite. I'm looking for some compelling reasoning that would compel my mind to think otherwise.
Helpersssz,
No it wasn't me. I've never had any surgery, or any varicocelle or epididymitis that I'm aware of.
Although it does feel like my left spermatic cord gets tender when I've done too much exercise now, a major symptom for me.
Meyers rate of subsequent surgery is extremely small. i think in one of his papers it is less than 1%.
I think the cause of it is stronger lower body torsion and not as strong core. There have been 2 protocols that I know of that are designed to prevent this.
Who gives a shit what most doctors say. Most doctors are not specialists. I was in the medical profession and after being in it there are many docs i would not bring my dog to.
I went to some good docs....even the head of orthopedics at a large hospital who did not even know what it was? Does that mean it does not exist? The most competent muscle guy i ever met who treats the NY Yankees in the tampa area told me i would not be able to walk if i had it. So who gives a shit? I certainly don't. A dozen docs were in above their head. That is why people travel the world to see Meyers. When i was there of the 16 people getting cut....12 of us traveled to see him. To me that speaks volumes.
Also the lack of insurance coverage does not minimize the need for repair of this injury. Also, when you say sports hernia I know that is not what Meyers talks about.
He speaks of RA detachment and I do not care who you are....it ain't fixing itself. You can show me a million examples....Mayo Clinic stuff and so on.
It is not fixing itself.
What do you think of Josh Hamilton recovering from open surgery for a detached RA and returning to play MLB at 4 weeks. This includes stealing bases and taking 100's of swings a day.
Do you think that was high risk? How about his 2nd baseman Ian Kinsler who had it last year and is having a great season?
I know i will never put myself in position to suffer this again. Meyers thinks I had a small tear for 20 years due to the scarring and 4.5 years ago it detached. I had always had testicle and groin pain on and off for 20 years....
I lifted weights today...circuit training...did my FMS stuff which is challenging...walked 5.5 miles and did 45 minutes on the elliptical w/ 20 of them using arms too.
I return to work monday after 3 years so i will not workout like that. I was a competitive boxer and am used to being in tip top shape. I am losing weight and will not stop until my core is bullet-proof.
People...you have to watch Surf because he never tells the whole story. Many of his examples of people healing themselves from SH are like him....undiagnosed. He has already pawned this article off on the unsuspecting and I corrected him then too. Here is the latest on Kevin Curtis.
I think when he returned in 8 weeks is not enough time for tendons and ligaments to heal...especially at WR which involves cutting...starts....stops...pivoting in grass....in turf....legs slipping out from under you....and then accelerating...then stopping....In other words probably the worst position to return from from AP. Anyways, contrary to Mr. Surf....Kevin Curtis is fine....or maybe he is lying? Or maybe Meyers is a failure?
Nah... i doubt it..This is just another attempt of Surf providing half the story. HE shows no transparency and each posting has a negative twist to it. According to him nobody has ever been cured. Last time I checked this forum is to help people and educate them....not to scare them with negaitve conjecture that is handpicked and is not even scientific....I would give him a little credit if any of examples he posted had a diagnois but it was like 15%. Make no mistake....Surf is just a scared old man who wants to take others down the same miserable road. He does not present two sides of the story. In fact he presents none. None because he has no knowledge of this...Does not know if he has it. I always had trouble listening to the guy who talked a good game but never lived it. The fat athletic trainer who seems to know the answers...but does not live them. I boxed and hated guys who wanted to show me things in slow motion..."if you do this then i will do that"...Horsehit...No credibility. Do I know anymore because I went through it. I think i do. Not enough to be an expert. However, i ask a boat load of questions and talked to a ton of patients.....My friend Surf is an ambulance chaser and loves a good crash and burn story.
HERE IS WHAT REALLY IS GOING ON WITH CURTIS
Thursday, June 18, 2009
Curtis says he's 100 percent
Eagles wide receiver Kevin Curtis returned to his home state of Utah for a charity golf tournament and proclaimed himself fully healthy to play this season.
Curtis missed the beginning of last season following sports hernia surgery and then missed the post-draft minicamp because of a followup surgery in April. He was a limited participant in the last group of OTAs, saying he felt strong at the start of practices but the area would get fatigued.
"I'm 100 percent this year," Curtis told ABC4 in Provo. "I'm feeling good. I should be ready to roll."
Curtis, who turns 31 next month, also is suddenly the graybeard among the wide receivers. He knows that he is not guaranteed as prominent a role as he enjoyed when he signed as a free agent 2 years ago, penciled in right away as the No. 1 wideout.
"I'm trying to keep the hair long to stay kind of young to throw off the front office to think I'm not aging," joked Curtis, heading into his seventh NFL season.
Curtis also talked about making it all the way to the NFL and his deep Utah roots.
"I feel like I do belong," he said. "You talk to me 15 years ago I was just trying to get on the field in high school ...
"This is home for me. This is where I'm from. I always admired guys coming out of Utah in professional sports so I take a lot of pride in that."
Hockey Player,
Who is your insurance provider? Are they giving you a hard time about the injury saying its pre-existing or are they not covering the procedure/diagnosis code?
Hockey Player,
Who is your insurance provider? Are they giving you a hard time about the injury saying its pre-existing or are they not covering the procedure/diagnosis code?
had a question about adduction. bilateral tears on both sides, off bone on right. As indicated, i'm unraveled, pelvis imbalance etc... I know i read about this 30 pages back or whatnot.
I have weakness/pain sensation when i slip or loose my footing, right in my adductors/pubis. I'm trying to figure out why it feels like that? are the adductors trying to stabilize and due to the RA tears it is difficult? We have floor/standing mats at work. Whenever i try to slide one over so i can stand on it, it hurts and feels weak - example, with my right foot on the mat i will attempt to slide (adduction) it toward me, take one step over and slide again. I tell you this feels very weak.
Albert/JC, either of you, can you explain a bit about his one?
My PT does this one thing to me and i get the same sensation/pain in the pubic/adductors. laying on my back, knees up, she has be perform abduction and she hold my knee together while i try to push my knees apart, this does not hurt, but i'm weak. however adduction really hurts, she has me push my knees together while she rips my knees apart during adduction and the more separated my knees are the weaker it feels then bam it f__in rips my pubis and it pops.
I'm trying to understand if this indicates anything and if i should begin strengthening my adductors before surgery? I have access to the pool and i'm trying to push as much as i can before surgery.
R
Turkdog,
I think probably just about everybody here has the adductor weakness like yours as you describe it. I personally think your PT is being way too harsh if she is ripping your knees apart as you strain to adduct.
To me, that's way too dangerous.
You mention difficulty sliding the floor mat at work over with your foot. Yes, that's pretty classic. I think everybody here would find that painful.
I've zero medical credentials, so take anything I say with a grain of salt.
The reason that pool therapy is so popular in the PT guidelines issued, e.g., by Dr. Meyers and others, is that the water gives gentle resistance.
It seems to me that your rough handling by your PT is going to do you harm rather than good.
The sore adductors are a defense reaction by the body. Your body is telling you, "Don't do this motion (scoot the mat over) because that action puts direct stress on your wounded lower abdomen."
Instead you have to slowly and gradually strengthen your core. Then your adductors slowly become more responsive and less painful.
My conjecture only. I'm not a doctor.
Turkdog theres no use in any of us trying to come up with reasons or opinions of why we think doing one thing causes this to hurt etc....although a lot of us have similar symptoms everyone is different depending on what is torn, how big the tears are, if the tendon is detached from the bone, how much scar tissue is built up, if your muscles have calcified, what dysfunctions your body has been throw in etc etc....for example I had both sides torn ...RA and Adductors...with lots of scar tissue...2 of the tears were big he said.....yet through it all I was able to do resisted situp with no pain and do pretty much any core work with hardly any pain or restrictions
Abbduction hurt me the most to.....MY advice is DO NOT let your PT do any further stuff with the abbduction/adduction like shes been doing...Common sense tells me if your adductors are torn there getting torn up even more by that.....Stick with gentle stretching and core stuff to strengthen the surrouding area that can gain atrength until surgery...keep walking and do some sprinting if you can handle it....Dr Meyer told me Pre surgery to exercise hard and do as much as your body can handle but just avoid that sharp hurt feeling....his words.......If you look back some pages I posted exactly what I was doing pre surgery including workout and supplements...not sure what page but cant be more then 15 pages back
Oh one note the way I strengthened my adductors was using 3 lb ankle weights and lying on my sides doing adduction/abbduction and lying on my back and prone doing leg raises...look on U tube and you will find something there that shows you that way
Good luck buddy
Turkdog-
Usually with this injury your adductors are overworked and on overload because the RA is injured and they adductors are unopposed.
I remember if i slipped before surgery my adductor would be in agony for a week or so.
If it were me i would not allow the PT to do that.
I just got back from my 2nd FMS assessment and I am making huge leaps. The person who is training me is a kineseologist and knows the body. I appreciate PT's but many are not schooled in how the whole glutes/hips/RA/adductor combination really works. The great thing about functional movement is that it does not focus on 1 muscle but on movement patterns.
I wish you luck turkdog in your quest for healing.
About addictors, atleast for what I have felt is that I find myself always contracting them Always. When I'm laying down or sitting , all the time. I feel that maybe we find ourselves in a comfortableish position so we flex almost to hold that position. And since we are scared to flex our abs to hold that posture, we flex our legs and hips instead.
All the time I find I'm clenching my inner groin leg muscles. I try to lay on the floor and put my legs up on firm pillows elongated down my leg, and just relax, give the addictors the break they deserve.
The RA is an opposing muscle to the adductors and when it is hurt or torn the adductors are forced to shoulder a huge load. Remember....adductors are not designed to be primary movers. They are supposed to be atablizers.
Here is something to think about.
When I was hurt I was forced into a drastic Anterior tilted posture. In fact if I put my heels against the wall and head as well there would be close to a 3-4" gap. Now the gap is about 1/2-1".
When i would go for a walk my hip flexors would be so tight as well as my quads and adductors of course.
Now because my RA is in place and my pelvis is in neutral the only thing that is sore after a real long walk (5-7 miles) is my glutes. This is because they are now my prime movers. Remember, when the hip flexors take over it shuts the glutes down (this is caused gluteal amnesia). So in essence the body is relying on muscles that are not supposed to be doing the job as a primary mover.
This is the reason the adductors are so tight. in fact mine were so overworked that they calcified together to try to join forces (body is smart...even though it hurts). This forced edema to pool and be forced into my lower leg with tremendous pressure.
I agree! Dr. Meyers told me specifically to massage those adductors MANY times a day!?!? What gives, amigos? FYI I had bilateral adductor release and RA repair.
Kent Im 99% sure he told me the next morning after surgery to start massaging the next day...told me 2x/day for 10 minutes each for 8 weeks.....then once or twice a week....told me not to kill them or go to high near the tendons...just the bellies......Ive been doing them a few times a day while sitting or lying.
Surgery on 7/15....last one of the day and was out of recovery room around 7pm.....All 3 days have been about the same...both adductors sore and tight, Incision soreness is a very deep sorness, Most painful is the area where the tendons attach to the pubic bone whcih is pretty much right under the incisions so soreness is probably a combination of both...2nd day was worse then the first or 3rd....Also notice a lot of tight/achyness in my Glute medius's and low back.....Sitting at a desk bothers the incision area the most....My area of walking is all hills and bumpy trails.....Walking is not a problem ...slow the first day, slower the 2nd day but improved today day 3...did two 1/2 miles the first two days and did three 1/2 miles today. Im using heat about 3-4x a day and I Ice after any walking....Very Minimal swelling, and the rigth side of my man parts turned black and blue...one hell of a scary site....Supplements Im taking are Amino Acids, BCAA's, L Glutimine Powder, Protein Powder, a product called Prolo Max by Benuts which has lots of good tissue healing ingredients in it and a EAS product whcih ahs Creatine, L gluteamine and HMB in it plus Im eating right to give myself the best shot to heal quick
Surgery night I was taking 2 percocets every 4 hours......next day 1-2 every 6 hours and today so far I only took 2 and will probably take another before I go relax on the recliner......Very comfortable sleeping
Incision under the steri strips does not seemed raised much...Looks like about a 2" incision on the left and a 3" incisin on the right plus the belly button incision for the belly button hernia
Thats it in a nut shell.....looking foward to some improvements here and there as time goes by
JC, great to hear surgery went well!
Yeah, Meyers told me the same thing. I've been hitting the gym and do little by little, I'm building up my core. I began using the foam roller about 8 days ago, pirformis myofascial release - i have dropped 8 pounds in about a week and i've been feeling really good. I'm set for surgery Aug, can't wait. I'm not going back to that PT!! Looks like u tube has some great videos to help in the meantime.
Thanks again