Should I have my distance runners do summer track?

Do NOT have your kids do summer track... they will not run well in cross country...

What's a few races going to hurt? Can't they transition their running to base and still race a little?

If they are primarily track guys, then of course. Its XC that would be their "should we really bother?"

If they are in summer track clubs, I take it that their emphasis is track. In that case xc IS the base. But they need some time off if doing many summer meets after spring track.

July finish track, time off.

August start back base training

GORUN1600 wrote:

Do NOT have your kids do summer track... they will not run well in cross country...

That is silly. Show me the science where it says you can't do both. Are you one of these guys stuck in the 70s where everything is based on LSD? The rest of the country is getting faster, and it isn't because they recently found out about mileage.

not a problem. too many coaches want to peak their runners during xc. Just have them base building and training through xc. I have always hated the xc,indoor, outdoor setup. The way world championships are set up makes more sense. 2 seasons with XC ending in February, Track in August.

So if they just went through a spring season and recently tapered...what should the summer schedule look like? I mean is it possible to go through another cycle and then taper for summer meets? Should they continue to taper? I just want to make sure the coach isn't going to burn them out.

mytrackboyz1 wrote:

I'm conflicted. It's those summer clubs that compete in summer track meets. They just finished spring track and will have XC in the fall, so I'm nervous that this will throw off their summer base. However, adding a couple months of summer track could really show some great PR's in their track events.

Anyone with experience in doing this?

Summer track is a terrible idea for high school distance runners unless they are just doing their summer xc training and running the races for fun. Even then, its still a bad idea because there is no point in racing when you aren't prepared to run well. If they do it through a club, the coach will have them doing intervals all summer which is a terrible idea because you can't do that while also building base. Summer track is great for sprinters, but without a strong base, the distance runners will suffer in the fall.

I assume you will be able to talk to the runners about this. Explain that summer base is the most important thing, but if they want to run a few meets for fun, that's fine; if they don't want to run them, that's fine too. You don't need me to remind you that running should be an enjoyable experience! As long as they are doing the kind of training you think is important for them, I can't see the fun of competing and the comradeship that that sustains will be a problem. And thanks for caring about the team: many don;t.

mytrackboyz1 wrote:

I'm conflicted. It's those summer clubs that compete in summer track meets. They just finished spring track and will have XC in the fall, so I'm nervous that this will throw off their summer base. However, adding a couple months of summer track could really show some great PR's in their track events.

Anyone with experience in doing this?

I think it's fine, since summer training is often dull and not as goal oriented as season training. This will give them something to shoot for and keep them mentally sharp. I would recommend they keep the races short though, working on speed and turnover; no need burning out their legs in the summer with long, hard races and then leaving them unable to perform during the season when it counts.

vpathletics.com wrote:

GORUN1600 wrote:

Do NOT have your kids do summer track... they will not run well in cross country...

That is silly. Show me the science where it says you can't do both. Are you one of these guys stuck in the 70s where everything is based on LSD? The rest of the country is getting faster, and it isn't because they recently found out about mileage.

Actually, that's exactly why.

I have been tempted but not brave enough to attempt a reverse approach to high school training. One we have a good team and I don't want to blow up any chance at state.

But what about if you trained in the summer like it was xc season or summer track. Upped the mileage. Hit the intervals. You did all your work early. Then when school starts and the stresses increase, the kids get less sleep, etc. you transition to strides, maintence workouts, etc.

The stress from outside factors go up, you back off a bit. Now all this likely will lead to a peak in September but could you do this in a way to actually make this work?

If you do summer track and that's your big focus (e.g. USATF National meets), then absolutely.

But if your focus is on the high school season, November-December (XC)/May-June (Track) works out MUCH better. Who cares about indoors anyways? It's the season-before-the-final-season (of the year), and you're doing similar (for runners) or shorter (for sprinters) events in both seasons, so why would you want to try to peak for both?

But as to the OP... around here, it would probably only be two or three depending on if they make it to nationals, but I know some areas have more significant USATF participation and probably have more meets than the Association+Regional+National championships. So if it's a situation of just letting them run 2-3 meets and keeping touch with speedwork, then go for it - particularly if it helps them train more consistently or could boost their confidence. But if it's a situation where you wouldn't have any say in their training, if the club coach might run them into the ground, and if they'd have many meets.... then training with you and working towards XC would probably be the better option for their long term development (and your program).

my only thing about kids doing summer track is that kids go to these running clubs and the coaches have differing opinions and the kids come back and think that their high school coach isn't training then correctly... it has nothing to do with only lsd... if you are coaching them then go for it...

My first thought is no.

But maybe run some 400's if they do summer track.

I've had this problem in the past, the kids run three seasons during the school year, then go right into summer track and are doing that until August. It leaves no room for proper base building, so I really dislike it. The one thing I would say is that for a kid who is extremely lazy and is not going to put the work in without a team, it can be a good thing because at least you know they will be running a few times per week.

I see the challenge as club track clubs vs. high school XC. But, as most of these club coaches claim, "if it truly isn't us vs. them" (re: HS vs. Club), why couldn't the athlete facilitate some discussion between the two coaches to find a happy medium?

If the athlete's focus is XC, then treat the summer meets as tempo runs or some fast running in the middle of a longer workout? If the athlete's focus is track (re: middle distance specialists) then let them do summer track and use the fall to build base.

Generally, I would let them run. They will probably end up working harder, running faster and having more fun if they have races and 90% of becoming good is showing up and putting in solid effort day in and day out. I assume very few of them (considering it is high school) are highly disciplined to slog miles at a good clip and get in the hill work outs, strides and tempos to really have a good base (it isn't just miles). Plus racing is fun, and that is reason number one why they are competing. One workout and one race a week will not kill their base, it will probably make it better.

The club coach probably wants to see the athletes do well in their high school races too.

jointblazer wrote:

not a problem. too many coaches want to peak their runners during xc. Just have them base building and training through xc. I have always hated the xc,indoor, outdoor setup. The way world championships are set up makes more sense. 2 seasons with XC ending in February, Track in August.

So you'd have them excel in summer and spring track but suck in xc?? That's crazy. Summer track should be their lowest priority.

My experince over the last 25 years says this is not a good idea. Every kid that has done this that I know was burned out mentally by CC season. The reason is when you do too much anaerobic you lose the aerobic strength plus the mental stress of racing. I have also seen kids do real well in club track due to less competiton than school Track They get a false sense of success then come out for CC and get beat out by a few kids who put in the miles and fold mentally.

My athletes shut the racing down for the summer maybe doing a road race or two. They need to get the miles in to prepare their body for the rigors of racing and faster running for CC. Yes I am from the 70s and have been very succesful with a Lydiard/Bowerman type training plan. The programs where they do much intervals never seem to be worth a darn by seasons end. All the programs that I know that are real good across the country are those that have summer mile programs. No base, no glory!!

Our teams have been runner up twice and State CC Champs 2011 in AZ. My track distance kids had a 4:18, 4:19 1600s they also ran 1:52 and 1:55, 9:29 and 9:43. 4x800 was 7:54, girls 4 girls under 5:20 and one under 5. 4x800 girls 9:23 5 girls under 12 for 3200m. This in AZ a very competitve state for high school distance running.

Monty