17:08? Sam Wharton? Get yourselves together, Nike

His 5k XC PR is 14:56 from the Footlocker Midwest Regional Meet.

Some years, the course conditions have been fine either because it has been dry or because it is much colder and the ground is firm. I think Nike liked Portland Meadows because of the facilities and parking which are nice. However, I think the course this year was a bit much. I think some that want it moved out of Oregon are off base, in as much as they think that is what an Oregon cross country course looks like in early December. Sure, it is likely there will be some mud on any course, but Portland Meadows is not reflective of the conditions in the Portland area. Part of the Portland Meadows property (at the northern end) is in the flood plain and that whole area has a high water table. While it isn't going to be sunny December running like Balboa Park, you could get better conditions at a different location in Portland area.

Have you ever thought that Wharton isn't a track guy like a majority of these runners. A 4:0x.xx miler isn't guaranteed to be an elite HS XC runner. Wharton is obviously stronger as the distance gets longer as he hasn't even ran in the 4:1x's yet. He's a strength runner where as Montoya and Burcham are speed. This course favored strength as it was a mudfest. You guys need to get over yourself that your idea of a favorite didn't win. It happens. Wharton BARELY lost to Leingang at Footlocker MW so if Leingang was a favorite, I don't see why Wharton was not. One thing is for sure, people know who Sam Wharton is now.

I don't get it with you people. When something unexpected and sort of exciting happens at a national event you complain because things weren't boring and predictable.

And you idiots wonder why nobody cares about running in this country.

TheSpaz wrote:

I don't get it with you people. When something unexpected and sort of exciting happens at a national event you complain because things weren't boring and predictable.

And you idiots wonder why nobody cares about running in this country.

How exactly is the course turning into a swamp "exciting?"

It seems that we have a lot of LR posters who are confused about the fact that XC is not track. On top of that, I know that a lot of the coaches and kids look forward to a true "Cross Country" experience such as they have only read about in the past. The great stories that some of the founders of the sport have talked about always deal with the adverse conditions and horrendous terrain. Nike gets it, they understand the sport...LR posters no so much so.

Fluffy wrote:

TheSpaz wrote:

I don't get it with you people. When something unexpected and sort of exciting happens at a national event you complain because things weren't boring and predictable.

And you idiots wonder why nobody cares about running in this country.

How exactly is the course turning into a swamp "exciting?"

Stop bitching about the conditions you turd.

TheSpaz wrote:

Fluffy wrote:

How exactly is the course turning into a swamp "exciting?"

Stop bitching about the conditions you turd.

lol U Mad? It was just a question. Don't get all defensive. If you can't answer the question then thats fine, but don't turn to insults.

I don't think he is "mad" or defensive, I just think he is like most of the rest of us. I think he is irritated that so many people have posted about something they don't understand. Cross country is not like track where the fastest guy wins. Cross country is more about toughness and mental strength and an ability to run in adverse conditions. I think he realizes that this is part of the problem with young Americans, they don't get it. All they want is the fastest guy to win. If that were what is is all about, we would have one race and Usain Bolt would win every time. No, I think he is irritated that regardless of how many posts try to explain this, some of you still don't get it.

While I appreciate that cross country is a blood, mud, and guts kind of race, the sloppy conditions created here appears to be almost negligent on the part of nike. this could be a lawsuit waiting to happen.

HS runners race in hot 90+ degree weather most of the year, I think most would not consider that xc weather either.

Baseball plays the majority of their games in different conditions than the World Series.

I'm not a fan of the NXN course. But you can't control the weather so if it is muddy that's what it is.

I ran at USATF XC champs at Blue Lake Park, Stangord, the golf course in Tacoma. Also ran Fort Vancouver in the Winter Worl Champs Trials. All were muddy (though not that bad).

The race is a great idea, it should be nationally recognized event with real regional qualifying from your state meet. Until schools get to run in their school uniform this race will be a joke. "Club" championships. Yea!!! You're basically the HS version of the Junior Olympics.

bangalangadanga wrote:

While I appreciate that cross country is a blood, mud, and guts kind of race, the sloppy conditions created here appears to be almost negligent on the part of nike. this could be a lawsuit waiting to happen.

A lawsuit waiting to happen?? For what? Running in mud?

Real Cross Country wrote:

I don't think he is "mad" or defensive, I just think he is like most of the rest of us. I think he is irritated that so many people have posted about something they don't understand. Cross country is not like track where the fastest guy wins. Cross country is more about toughness and mental strength and an ability to run in adverse conditions. I think he realizes that this is part of the problem with young Americans, they don't get it. All they want is the fastest guy to win. If that were what is is all about, we would have one race and Usain Bolt would win every time. No, I think he is irritated that regardless of how many posts try to explain this, some of you still don't get it.

Even in track, the 'fastest guy' doesn't always win. The Australian Nat XC Champs (changes state each year-this time near Adelaide) turned into a similar mudfest due to a heap of unexpected rain. I am sure that some guys and gals were disadvantaged because the conditions negated their natural speed. Others would have been advantaged due to their extra strength. C'est la vie. Wouldn't have it any other way.

When i first looked at this thread, i though, "ahh, a little mud never hurt anyone." Then i watched the videos on runnerspace and changed my mind. That course was ridiculous. I am wondering if some people defending it didn't see the race? I congratulate Wharton. The best runner for the conditions won this race. However, to make this a national championship race on this course is just stupid.

Out of curiosity, how many of you "real XC defenders" would have wanted to run NXN yesterday on that trashed course? How many of you actually dealt with crappy cross country courses in your career? Or for the majority of your races?

Run the race on a fast or reasonable course; 100 times out of 100 Wharton doesn't win. Arcadia doesn't win.

Pre is my Favorite wrote:

Out of curiosity, how many of you "real XC defenders" would have wanted to run NXN yesterday on that trashed course? How many of you actually dealt with crappy cross country courses in your career? Or for the majority of your races?

Run the race on a fast or reasonable course; 100 times out of 100 Wharton doesn't win. Arcadia doesn't win.

It's funny that before the meet yesterday there were a bunch of threads about how NXN was better than Footlocker and that Balboa was not a "real" xc course.

Sometimes championship races end up being run in slop, that is just the way it is. 2006 or 2007 DIII Cross Country Nationals in Cincinnati was run in conditions as bad or worse than the Nike Nationals conditions were yesterday. I'd rather run on a nice dry course myself but sometimes that doesn't work out. You run the race the best you can and live with the results. It is nice to see strength runners have a chance against all the speed guys while in high school. Runners move on to college and guess what, the added distance makes Cross Country more a sport for the strength runners. If I'm a college coach looking for Cross Country talent not just track talent I'm thinking Wharton is a much better recruit.

I was there. And this thread boggles my mind.

1) Nike is paying millions to put on this race and asking nothing in return. They are the ONLY ones in this country willing to do so. Without them, there is no national team race. So please, bring the anger down a notch, you all sound like a bunch of babies.

2) Nobody is forced to attend. So anyone who wants to puss out in the future is more than welcome to. Or they can feel free to host their own nationals. Maybe XCNation could do it next year?

3) By now, the mud on this course should be no surprise. So how does anybody have any business coming into this race unprepared? "Waaahhh, we didn't win. It's unfair. Waaaahhhh." My team was ranked in the back half coming in and yet spanked Southlake Carroll and finished top 8. They were prepared, expected the mud, and ran tough. How could any other team line up in any other state of mind?

4) From my view as a spectator, the "big 4" all pussed out. They showed that they can't handle adversity. Sam Wharton, on the other hand, was an absolute BEAST.

5) Shame on anybody for discrediting the results of this race. Everyone was dealt the same hand. The winners played their hand the best, and that's that. Sam Wharton and Arcadia are champions. Deal with it.

6) Petition Nike if you want the course moved. Maybe they'll listen. In the meantime, man up and enjoy the race that is handed to you freely by the gracious hand of Nike.

neanderthal dream wrote:

Petition Nike

Nike doesn't care what happens to the runners.