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Tyrannosaurus Rexing
RE: That was the worst 5000m final in an Olympics ever 8/14/2012 12:22PM - in reply to Tyrannosaurus Rexing Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
just watched last 6 laps again (i.e., the race)

Gebremeskel really gave away the race. He was boxed in and gave Mo about FIFTEEN meters with 350 to go, and was in 9th place. Seriously look at it again. He wasted so much energy getting out of that box. And then coming off the final turn was boxed again, had to bounce around the Kenyan. With all that, he still almost caught Mo.

If he and his teammates worked together and hit the pace hard (at least every other lap) from the gun, AND he got himself into a good position at the bell (but of course off off a faster pace, the riff raff would have been dropped and out of his way), I am certain he wins.

Live and learn Gebremeskel. But you gave away gold.
*
RE: That was the worst 5000m final in an Olympics ever 8/14/2012 12:27PM - in reply to Tyrannosaurus Rexing Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I find some irony of all of these posts that said that everyone should have feared Farah's kick and they needed a faster pace.

It was Farah that took over with 700m to go to pick up the pace because he was trying to take the kick out of everyone else.

He was trying to take the sting out of Lagat.
As 10,000m champion, Farah would have enjoyed a faster pace that would put a hurt on some of the speedier guys.
800m Coach234
RE: That was the worst 5000m final in an Olympics ever 8/14/2012 12:31PM - in reply to deanouk Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

deanouk wrote:


hey dummy wrote:



Brendon Foster and Steve Cram also called this race and the women's 1500 "disappointing". They raced at the highest level and don't get the allure of this kind of race.




Not true. They commented on the women's 1500 being slow and alluded to it being disappointing, but they were practically wetting themselves when Mo won the 5000m. They never said it was disappointing, in fact Foster, the worst commentator ever, said that this was the "greatest achievement in the history of British Athletics". The man is deluded. As glad as I am that Farah won, his win in 13:41 was painfully slow. It's not even the best 5000m run by a Briton. That goes to Moorcroft's 13:00 WR 30 years ago when he practically front run most of it.


You are the deluded one. Of course it was the greatest achievement ever in British Athletics history. It was a double gold medal at home. Get some perspective. Are you just a world record chaser?
800m Coach234
RE: That was the worst 5000m final in an Olympics ever 8/14/2012 12:34PM - in reply to Um, yeah Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Um, yeah wrote:


deanouk wrote:

If other athletes didn't push the pace earlier, then they obviously felt they could out kick Mo.


It's more likely that they knew they would get outkicked by Mo (and many others) if they were to lead and push the pace, but by staying conservative, they at least had a chance to grab a medal (even if it wasn't gold).

---------------------------------------------------------
Mo is also the fastest right now in both races
jikugki
RE: That was the worst 5000m final in an Olympics ever 8/14/2012 12:42PM - in reply to deanouk Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

deanouk wrote:

You can't win 2 Olympic gold medals on luck. Totally wrong!





Are you kidding?
It's absolute luck that Mo Farah didn't have to face a healthy Bekele. Absolutely lucky that he is injured/recovering.
800m Coach234
RE: That was the worst 5000m final in an Olympics ever 8/14/2012 12:46PM - in reply to jikugki Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

jikugki wrote:


deanouk wrote:

You can't win 2 Olympic gold medals on luck. Totally wrong!





Are you kidding?
It's absolute luck that Mo Farah didn't have to face a healthy Bekele. Absolutely lucky that he is injured/recovering.


If that's the case then everyone who wins is lucky.

He was the best in the world on both days.
*
RE: That was the worst 5000m final in an Olympics ever 8/14/2012 1:22PM - in reply to Tyrannosaurus Rexing Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I just watched a replay myself.
Gebremeskel was right behind Farah as Farah made his move with 700 to go.
Then he kept letting people get between him and Farah.
Then he would surge up. And fall back. And surge up.
With one lap to go, a number of runners rushed by Gebremeskel as he was slow to react.
On the last backstretch, Gebremeskel weaved his way past a bunch of runners.
He was third as they started to come out of the turn and was lined up inside the Kenyan. Then he moved out to pass into second.
As he chased after Farah he could not make up ground over the last 50 and then he eased up, accepting second place.

In the meantime, the Morocan 1500 medalist moved into third on the inside with 350 to go. He held the position for 200m and was in perfect position to win on the oustide of the two leaders with 150m to go.
But he has nothing left. Lagat swings by him and then Iguider totally blows up and fades to 5th in the end.

The two Kenyans were positioned well with a lap to go.
Longosiwa was matching Farah step for step. He tried with every stride to pass Farah but just could not get by him.
In the end he succumbed to the fatigue as Gebremeskel passed him.
Koech was in 4th on the backstretch and he just didn't have the gas to get by and could do nothing about Gebrmeskel and Lagat passing him.

And then there was Lagat who started the last lap in 9th and quickly passed the clueless Gebremeskel who got him right back on the backstretch.
Lagat followed Gebremeskel through the turn.
the key to Lagat missing a medal came at 110m to go as the two of them split to pass the fading Morocan, Gebremeskel on the inside, Lagat on the outside, with a stumble.
That was it. Lagat lost too much ground on that move and could not catch anyone for a medal and settled for 4th.

Boring, I know.
Um, yeah
RE: That was the worst 5000m final in an Olympics ever 8/14/2012 2:01PM - in reply to Tyrannosaurus Rexing Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:
If he and his teammates worked together and hit the pace hard (at least every other lap) from the gun, AND he got himself into a good position at the bell (but of course off off a faster pace, the riff raff would have been dropped and out of his way), I am certain he wins.


Have you accounted for the fact that many (most?) of these other contenders are used to hitting their fast times in evenly paced (by other people) races on the Diamond League circuit and quite likely are not at all trained to be able to handle variations in pace like the surges you describe?

Sure, they hit the pace hard every other lap (60/64?) but Mo just has to hang back and run even 62s and they've done nothing but take themselves out of contention.
Canada Coach
RE: That was the worst 5000m final in an Olympics ever 8/14/2012 4:18PM - in reply to Um, yeah Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Absolutely fascinating race, as was outlined above. I'm agast at how many people on here have no clue when watching a race. Those surges, combined with a 4:05 minute mile before the last lap, killed everyone off.

The Ethiopian killed himself off with inconsistent paces in the last 2000m, yet still came 2nd. Farah was able to beat him, as he was much smarter - running more even paces in the last 2000m.

He (Farah) also positioned himself at the front, forcing anyone behind him to run low 52s to beat him on the last lap. No one could do that, especially after the 2000m (in about 5:10) before the last 400m (in 52).
shoe guy
RE: That was the worst 5000m final in an Olympics ever 8/14/2012 4:44PM - in reply to Canada Coach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
If the Kenyans or Ethiopians wanted to beat Mo, they should have run a race like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaAtnSSEXaM

Why wait for a sub 4 mile at the end when you can just do it in the middle of the race and just cruise in for the win?
Ben Him
RE: That was the worst 5000m final in an Olympics ever 8/14/2012 4:46PM - in reply to Canada Coach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Mo did a Viren 1976: "....my coach told me to go to the front with 600 to go and do not let anyone pass..."
This only works, of course, if you are clearly the best in the field, which Mo was.

Here's a theory. Both the 5 and 10K were 'disappointing' because they were clean. Why risk getting ruining a career by getting caught? Now they can all hit the PEDS again and get back to the business of making $ at races less high profile (and more lax?) than the OLYS. Lets see how many of the guys bounce back to sub 13's the rest of the season.

Bet they all do.
Canada Coach
RE: That was the worst 5000m final in an Olympics ever 8/14/2012 4:52PM - in reply to shoe guy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

shoe guy wrote:

If the Kenyans or Ethiopians wanted to beat Mo, they should have run a race like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaAtnSSEXaM

Why wait for a sub 4 mile at the end when you can just do it in the middle of the race and just cruise in for the win?


Because nobody could do that better than Farah. Why do you keep thinking another tactic would beat Farah. The only tactic that would have worked is tripping him.
shoe guy
RE: That was the worst 5000m final in an Olympics ever 8/14/2012 5:12PM - in reply to Canada Coach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Canada Coach wrote:


shoe guy wrote:

If the Kenyans or Ethiopians wanted to beat Mo, they should have run a race like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaAtnSSEXaM

Why wait for a sub 4 mile at the end when you can just do it in the middle of the race and just cruise in for the win?


Because nobody could do that better than Farah. Why do you keep thinking another tactic would beat Farah. The only tactic that would have worked is tripping him.


What makes you so convinced? Farah didn't even have the fastest 5k PR in the field and said he still felt tired from the 10k. I'm convinced that if someone wanted to run a 1:56 800 at the 3k mark and could maintain 60-62 pace after that Farah wouldn't have been able to cover the move.

Then again, the 3k split was faster in this race and no one in the London 5k field is as good as Daniel Komen. So we're comparing apples and oranges here.
Canada Coach
RE: That was the worst 5000m final in an Olympics ever 8/14/2012 5:22PM - in reply to shoe guy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

shoe guy wrote:


Canada Coach wrote:


shoe guy wrote:

If the Kenyans or Ethiopians wanted to beat Mo, they should have run a race like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaAtnSSEXaM

Why wait for a sub 4 mile at the end when you can just do it in the middle of the race and just cruise in for the win?


Because nobody could do that better than Farah. Why do you keep thinking another tactic would beat Farah. The only tactic that would have worked is tripping him.


What makes you so convinced? Farah didn't even have the fastest 5k PR in the field and said he still felt tired from the 10k. I'm convinced that if someone wanted to run a 1:56 800 at the 3k mark and could maintain 60-62 pace after that Farah wouldn't have been able to cover the move.

Then again, the 3k split was faster in this race and no one in the London 5k field is as good as Daniel Komen. So we're comparing apples and oranges here.


Don't take the 5k pbs too seriously. Mo hasn't run any time trials lately, but he will. Farah can run as fast as anyone in those races. The name of the game is winning, and Farah has only lost 1 race (barely) in the past 2 years.
Jurgis Rudkus
RE: That was the worst 5000m final in an Olympics ever 8/14/2012 5:24PM - in reply to Canada Coach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Canada Coach wrote:

The only tactic that would have worked is tripping him.


They already tried that in the 10,000.
Tyrannosaurus Rexing
RE: That was the worst 5000m final in an Olympics ever 8/15/2012 9:48AM - in reply to Canada Coach Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Canada Coach wrote:

Because nobody could do that better than Farah. Why do you keep thinking another tactic would beat Farah. The only tactic that would have worked is tripping him.


You are overconfident in that assertion. Re-read my posts. I already asserted that Mo might have won in any situation. However, Gebremeskel ALMOST caught him despite running horrible tactics vs perfect tactics for Mo. Geberemeskel could have done several different things that would have made the race, at worst, a photo finish if not a victory for him:

1) with help from 2 quality teammates (and possibly some other runners in the field with similar ideas on how to best help their chances for a medal), taken the pace out much harder. Either run some fast early laps, or sub 60 laps thrown in. Either way, it would certainly have cleared out some of the slower runners by the bell lap, making it less crowded and less likely he was would be boxed, which he was. It also would have taken some of the sting out of Farah's kick, which is now was good or better than anyone's.

2) in conjunction with above, he could have either glued himself to Farah's back when Farah took the lead, instead of falling behind him and other runners, or even taken back the lead so he had it going into the bell. Everyone says it is a death wish to take the lead too early. Farah, and Bekele, and others, have shown this not to be true. Especially in a congested race.


Gebremeskel certainly could have won with better tactics.
Um, yeah
RE: That was the worst 5000m final in an Olympics ever 8/15/2012 10:52AM - in reply to Tyrannosaurus Rexing Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

1) with help from 2 quality teammates (and possibly some other runners in the field with similar ideas on how to best help their chances for a medal), taken the pace out much harder. Either run some fast early laps, or sub 60 laps thrown in. Either way, it would certainly have cleared out some of the slower runners by the bell lap, making it less crowded and less likely he was would be boxed, which he was. It also would have taken some of the sting out of Farah's kick, which is now was good or better than anyone's.



So you are saying that to account for him running with bad tactics (getting boxed in by slower runners at the bell), he should have run with better tactics (get other runners to join him to run faster/variable paced laps).
kozz
RE: That was the worst 5000m final in an Olympics ever 8/15/2012 2:52PM - in reply to shoe guy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

shoe guy wrote:

If the Kenyans or Ethiopians wanted to beat Mo, they should have run a race like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaAtnSSEXaM

Why wait for a sub 4 mile at the end when you can just do it in the middle of the race and just cruise in for the win?


The only reason I can think of is bribes, and/or a fix.

They gamble on track in Britain.
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