Drug Cheat Abderrahim Goumri finally caught!

10k World Record Progression

27:38.35 Lasse Virén (FIN) September 3, 1972

27:30.8 David Bedford (GBR) July 13, 1973

27:30.5 Samson Kimobwa (KEN) June 30, 1977

27:22.4 Henry Rono (KEN) June 11, 1978

27:13.81 Fernando Mamede (POR) July 2, 1984

27:08.23 Arturo Barrios (MEX) August 18, 1989

* Recombinant erythropoietin (EPO) starts to become widely used *

27:07.91 - Richard Chelimo (KEN) July 5, 1993

26:58.38 - Yobes Ondieki (KEN) July 10, 1993

26:52.23 - William Sigei (KEN) July 22, 1994

26:43.53 - Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) June 5, 1995

26:38.08 - Salah Hissou (MAR) August 23,1996

26:31.32 - Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) August 4, 1997

26:27.85 - Paul Tergat (KEN) August 22,1997

26:22.75 - Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) June 1, 1998

* EPO test put in use in 2000 *

26:20.31 - Kenenisa Bekele (ETH) June 8, 2004

26:17.53 - Kenenisa Bekele (ETH) August 26,2005

Moroccan cheats? No!

Of course, this is just the snout of the crocodile.

I'm not sure if you're trying to make a point.

Autologous blood doping was a well-known method of boosting hematocrit levels throughout the 1970s and early 1980s, and the world record in the 10,000m nevertheless barely budged between 1965 and 1984.

The most obvious reason for the improvement in the 10,000m world record from 1989 to 1998 was that some really, really fast Africans emerged on the scene. The fastest of them, Haile G., can probably still time-trial a 10,000m within about 40 seconds of his peak performances from the 1990s. If anything, that would be more indicative of doping by the old man now, not doping by the twenty-something guy in the 1990s. (And to be very clear, I don't believe that Geb is doping.)

Moreover, it's worth noting that, among non-African runners, the world best was unchanged from 1989 to 2010. That doesn't suggest widespread use of any breakthrough performance-enhancing drugs that revolutionized performances in distance-running during the 1990s.

Of course, certain runners -- and certain communities of runners -- are regarded with suspicion with good reason. But some of these accusations are simply irresponsible and unsupported by compelling evidence. And it's especially silly to suggest that someone must have been doping twenty years ago merely because the best runners of today aren't appreciably better.

There is no doubts in my mind that Geb and Bekele are drug cheaters too. A clean athlete has no chances to compete against EPO users.

Go AfriKa wrote:

There is no doubts in my mind that Geb and Bekele are drug cheaters too. A clean athlete has no chances to compete against EPO users.

So is there any world-class distance runner whom you don't regard as a doper? Sammy Wanjuri ran 26:41 and 59:16 as an eighteen-year-old. In your view, did that make him too fast to be clean? What about Paul Tergat? Was his 26:27 slow enough to be clean? And if "[a] clean athlete has no chance to compete against EPO users," does that mean that everyone who runs faster than an EPO user must himself be a doper?

Quite clearly he means that 27:08.23 is the EPO free 10k record and no clean athlete can beat it.

he has been framed.

I was merely posting times from the 10k progression with the notes of when EPO became widely available (1989) and when the EPO test was developed (2000).

The massive decrease of the 10k in the 90s at the same time EPO starts to become available and utilized by athletes cannot be overlooked.

Athletes of that caliber (IE; East Africans), in the modern age (not the 1960s like you brought up with Clarke) utilizing fast tracks, modern training principals, rabbits and financial incentives dropping 45 seconds off the 10k world record. It is obvious that EPO was used and in the span of 5 years, 45 seconds slashed from the record.

Our heroes, while still our heroes, were using performance enhancing drugs and the fact that anyone can deny that is unbelievable.

Similar things happened in cycling in the 90s. It wasn't because of talent that the peloton got much quicker, it was because of EPO.

To clarify my post: The 90s were the modern era, to see a huge cut in world records that still cannot be approached shows that EPO was heavily used to reduce the records.

The fact you bring up Clarke in an era where the sport was developing, shattering world records by massive amounts is a bad example and is actually to be expected.

TLW wrote:

Athletes of that caliber (IE; East Africans), in the modern age (not the 1960s like you brought up with Clarke) utilizing fast tracks, modern training principals, rabbits and financial incentives dropping 45 seconds off the 10k world record. It is obvious that EPO was used and in the span of 5 years, 45 seconds slashed from the record.

So you acknowledge that, in the 1990s, there were higher-caliber East African athletes, running on fast tracks with rabbits, financial incentives, and modern traning methods, yet you choose not to explain their superior performances on any of those bases, but instead based on an unsubstantiated accusation of EPO use, which you regard as "obvious." Hmmm....

And what about K. Bekele's performances after 2000? How do you explain his performances?

TLW wrote:

To clarify my post: The 90s were the modern era, to see a huge cut in world records that still cannot be approached shows that EPO was heavily used to reduce the records.

The fact you bring up Clarke in an era where the sport was developing, shattering world records by massive amounts is a bad example and is actually to be expected.

Are you saying the world records of the 1990s still cannot be approached? What about Bekele's performances in the mid-2000s? And what about the many young distance runners (like Wanjiru) who showed as much promise as any of the track athletes being libeled on this thread, but who elected to pursue more lucrative careers in road racing?

I think that the Clarke example is very apt. Athletes who are just a lot better than everyone else do come on the scene once in a while. And there are always people who will explain away and demean these extraordinary athletes' performances as drug-aided.

Avocado's Number wrote:

Are you saying the world records of the 1990s still cannot be approached? What about Bekele's performances in the mid-2000s? And what about the many young distance runners (like Wanjiru) who showed as much promise as any of the track athletes being libeled on this thread, but who elected to pursue more lucrative careers in road racing?

I think that the Clarke example is very apt. Athletes who are just a lot better than everyone else do come on the scene once in a while. And there are always people who will explain away and demean these extraordinary athletes' performances as drug-aided.

Please quit fugkin arund. The "Clark exsample" is not "apt." Todey we have a race like the Ozlo 5 thousand where ten guys runn a time woulda been breath takeing in the late 1980s, and its not even an ishew. OH 7th or 9th place is what Davemoorcrafts record was at that time? Hooey! Fukkit, just to be exspected. And this hapens Constantley. CONSTINTLY! Tenguys undar 13:05 or 7:37 or 27:10 or whaddaver. Gecrther hed out yar ass.

You use the exemple of a single gy, ONE mann, pulling down a record by a sertin amunt where as now there are in any givin race TEN guys well belou a record of a resent erah. You seem like youd be a much batter statistishin than that. Drawing on exampil of one guy is plain stopid and you KNOW it.

You have been handed ass in argiement here and I hopes you have homility and sence to oan up to it. So simpel and yet you blathar.

SAD NEWS I LIKED HIM

His brother (Othman) is flying, too: 13:17 at age of 20 in Rabat this year

Do you honestly believe Gharib is clean?!

Gharib is dirty. Hopefully they will bust him soon.

NativeSon wrote:

There you go.

Seriously, there is a difference between Moroccans and Ethiopia.

Of course I'm no expert, but I would say that Moroccans are people, and Ethiopia is a country.

EPoChEaT wrote:

FINALLY!!!

Hanane Ouhaddou and Abderrahim Goumri ...both 2 to 4years suspension based on the biological passport!

He won the 2011 Seoul marathon. You have to feel sorry for Sylvester Teimet who, after winning in 2010, came in second.

In the 1990s, EPO use caused 45 second drop because of drug use, yes. It's fairly obvious if you look at the 10k progression.

I think we all agree that in the late 70s the Africans started emerging on the scene (unlike Clarke's era), all countries were participating in the sport (unlike Clarke's era). The sport was developed and people were training correctly, we had modern tracks, rabbits, etc.

The world record up until the early 90s took a steady progression through the 70s and 80s, boom EPO arrives, 45 seconds off the record in 5 years, the tests arrive for EPO and the progression of not only the 10k, but 5k record come to a halt.

My point being that there were all the modern amenities ($$$, rabbits, tracks, training) in the 80s as well as 2000+, but why was there a huge decrees in time in a period where EPO first became available and the EPO test was developed.

Because EPO was used by athletes to drop world records.

K. Bekele's performances after 2000? Google CERA, which was a new form of EPO that was undetectable by urine test and only really started being tested for in 2008. Widely used before 2008 by both runners and cyclists.

Wanjiru was supremely talented, no doubt, but he didn't take 4 minutes off the marathon world record or something - which would be comparable to what happened in the 90s with the 10k record.

Again, just look at all the 1500, 5k, 10k times and see when the top 10 times were majorly run. It's not a secret.

You'll see a huge surge before the EPO test, right up until testing began than slow down. You will see a things start to speed up in the mid-2000s when CERA was undetectable.

Wait until Hematide hits the scene. World records will be set.