50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Syracuse wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

In regards to falls, one of the bigger risks running trails in winter is tripping on frozen dirt or ice. The translucent color make it hard to see and on the downhill especially hazardous.

LOL. No one said anything about running on icy trails. Obviously some common sense is expected.

Ah, I did.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Syracuse wrote:

LOL. No one said anything about running on icy trails. Obviously some common sense is expected.

Ah, I did.

Thus the LOL.

Hey Syracuse tells us more about your impressive indoor experience resume.

RF reader wrote:

Sad Old Cat wrote:

And just the other day I was doing some leg curls (high reps/low weight) and strained my hamstring.

In my humble opinion, a leg curl machine is very dangerous to runners. In your running motion, your muscles are contracted in an eccentric motion (when your knee is extended). If that does not make much sense, think of a dumbbell arm curl and see what happens to your biceps when you are extending your elbows.

...

Vern Gambetta has been saying this for years.

Allen 1959... thanks for the reply.

I ran my last marathon six years ago, also Houston, in 2:48 flat. I should have leaned at the tape ?. After that I didn’t do much at all until this year due to lethargy and family priorities, but last Christmas my brother challenged me to get going and run the race with him. So here we are.

I follow a basic Lydiard kinda program with a lot of very easy miles for many months followed by marathon paced runs and repeat mile workouts.

The miles build up really fast since I go slow (70% of max HR is my goal) and I have found that I get pretty fit off all that shuffling. So I went from 0 to 90 per week in about three weeks. It made dropping the 25 pounds go pretty well! I’ve always enjoyed the long, slow stuff.

I used to run too fast all the time and get hurt if I went over 60 a week , but after reading about the Canadian guy and and how he just ran easy all the time, I got on that band wagon with good results. Anyhow, fingers crossed.

Yup, I race walked for a few years after injuries made running no fun. That was almost thirty years ago, but some labels stick. Folks around here see me at a race and still ask me if I’m going to walk. But I’d rather run.

I disagree. First of all what kind of leg curl machine are you referring to? I use and have been using for years the one depicted in the video below. I perform the eccentric motion unilaterally one leg at a time. I don't think I'd be running much in my middle-age without hamstring eccentrics performed on the leg curl machine. About 10 yrs ago, I badly strained my hamstring (grade 2) running a 400 at an all-comers meet. 1 1/2 months down time with no running and barely light spinning. Massage ball therapy, stretching and all that ineffective. Started the hamstring eccentrics on the leg curl machine concentrating on injured leg and improved significantly with aggressive rehab. First light jogging, then moderate running and returning to near pre-injury level in about 4 weeks.

In addition, about 3 yrs ago I strained my popliteus muscle on the posterior side of the knee. As with the hamstring injury, I concentrated attention to the muscle group and it responded pretty well to the rehab. Though I've had to cut back on mileage & speed work significantly over the years due to other chronic injuries and just plain aging (plus I'm not built for running ?), the leg curl eccentrics keep me running a few times a week.

Also, eccentrics are the gold started on rehabilitation of tendinopathies. I've also had success with the rehab of Achilles tendonosis and calf strains:

I had the opportunity to hear Vern Gambetta speak on more than one occasion. Indeed, he is very much against the use of "machines" for strength training. As I recall, his opposition was related to their isolation of a particular muscle (thus potentially making them valuable for rehab) rather than working a group of muscles that typically interact during running. Free weight exercises come closer to duplicating and strengthening the running related actions that machines cannot.

A short report on last week for me because I have Christmas prep responsibilities to take care of. 42 miles total for the week with Friday and yesterday spent driving about 500 miles up to see my son and his wife and return. Saturday morning I had entered a local 10K trail race. They also were running half marathon, 35K and 50K races sharing parts of the same courses. The half marathon started 15 minutes ahead of the 10K. From what happened I am getting fitter, but not smarter. I started well and was running really well the first 4 miles which were all uphill. I was in 6th overall and we had caught a lot of half marathoners before even getting to 3 miles. At 4 miles I was working through a group of half marathoners and the guy ahead of me and girl behind me in the 10K were both out of sight. The 10K and half marathon courses split at 4.2 miles and guess which way I went. At 4.8 miles I realized I still was running on the ridge line and not heading down and I was well and truly screwed. I wasn't thinking clearly enough to decide that the best thing to do right then would have been to immediately turn around and start back down, and I ran all the way to the half marathon turnaround and asked what was the shortest way back. They said, "back the way you came." Despite having hammered the uphill believing I was running 10K and would have only 2 slightly steep downhill miles back to the finish line I felt better than I thought I might and just kept pushing the downhill as much as I could to get back because I knew my wife would be worried when I didn't finish the 10K in less than 55 minutes, and because we had scheduled a family activity that required me to finish my race in less than an hour, take a quick shower and head immediately for the activity. I finished the half marathon course in 1:55:50, and I had expected to run right at 50:00 for the 10K so I was pleased and surprised by my fitness for the total distance. My time got me 150th of 158 entrants in the 10K, and would have gotten me 19th of 160 in the half marathon. Averaging right at 8:45/mi with 1200ft of elevation change and 2300ft of total climbing was much better than I though I could do right now. I only got mildly yelled at by my wife and told that if I did another trail race I have to carry my iPhone so she can track me. I didn't have any good arguments against that. With some enthusiastic driving by my son we made our activity about 30 minutes late but it all worked out. It was a really fun weekend.

Great way to test your fitness, old guy II. Too bad you couldn't get your rightful placing in the HM but it sounds like you're taking it with the right attitude.

I have repeated nightmares about getting lost on race courses, although it's only happened twice in a lifetime of racing and only once did it matter to my placing. Must say I've never run a HM when I planned a 10K, though!

OG II way to make lemonaide btw there was a reacent study suggesting NOT to carry your cell around

http://fortune.com/2017/12/18/california-cell-phone-radiation-fact-check/

Charlie wrote:

OG II way to make lemonaide btw there was a reacent study suggesting NOT to carry your cell around

http://fortune.com/2017/12/18/california-cell-phone-radiation-fact-check/

0/10 ?

Old walker wrote:

I ran my last marathon six years ago, also Houston, in 2:48 flat. ...

I follow a basic Lydiard kinda program with a lot of very easy miles for many months followed by marathon paced runs and repeat mile workouts. ...

I used to run too fast all the time and get hurt if I went over 60 a week , but after reading about the Canadian guy and and how he just ran easy all the time, I got on that band wagon with good results. Anyhow, fingers crossed.

Yes, Ed Whitlock may be a good role model. Recently I have been implementing his method of healing injuries -- just take time off until healed.

But with all this good strengthening and injury prevention info here, I am determined to be more proactive. Cross train for awhile, and slowly return to building mileage. Although I doubt "zero to 90" in a few weeks is possible for me, no matter how slow!

Then I will have 18 months to prepare for the next marathon. Maybe start with a long buildup of easy mileage, followed by focused marathon training. Or maybe keep the mileage relatively low with a slow reintroduction of speedwork and some 5K racing this year, and marathon-specific training in 2019. Or a combination of the two.

In my second paragraph, I wrote the difference between a seated machine and a lying machine. I also wrote about lowering the bar on a single leg. So maybe you don't disagree with me as much as you think.

Your article (which I read a few years ago) also mentions many free weight exercises, which I think are more beneficial than a leg curl machine.

Allen59. I reckon you could do a lot worse than look back at OG11 rebuild.

Mike Long wrote:

I had the opportunity to hear Vern Gambetta speak on more than one occasion. Indeed, he is very much against the use of "machines" for strength training. As I recall, his opposition was related to their isolation of a particular muscle (thus potentially making them valuable for rehab) rather than working a group of muscles that typically interact during running. Free weight exercises come closer to duplicating and strengthening the running related actions that machines cannot.

But for old Bucks you've got to be careful with free weights as the risk of injury goes up exponentially particularly with heavier loads. As a long-time gym rat I've seen many people of the older demographics get injured (usually back & shoulder injuries) with free weights. I've myself have had a few lower back strains in my middle-age now with free weights. Machines are generally safer and I've more older people, especially those that have had joint replacement surgeries or have OA, use more of the machines. In fact, it looks like 70 yr old Arnold Schwarzenegger is exclusively using just machines now for his workouts (man...does he look good for 70!):

old guy II,

Good racing anyway you look at it. Hard to keep it moving with the climbs, so nice work. Funny story too.

Igy

My routine for what it’s worth: I have a typical distance runner frame, slight, not muscular upper body. I lift all free weights with no ill effects. I lift light, multiple sets of ten reps, concentrate on form. Focus on four exercise: bench, overhead, squats, eccentric heel drops. Also bosu ball single leg squats,and exercise ball core routine. I do these exercises during general build-up periods, 1-2 times a week, back-off during racing season.

Igy

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

My routine for what it’s worth: I have a typical distance runner frame, slight, not muscular upper body. I lift all free weights with no ill effects. I lift light, multiple sets of ten reps, concentrate on form. Focus on four exercise: bench, overhead, squats, eccentric heel drops. Also bosu ball single leg squats,and exercise ball core routine. I do these exercises during general build-up periods, 1-2 times a week, back-off during racing season.

Igy

Informative...thanks. Curious: Do you workout at gym (e.g., 24 Hr Fitness, Planet Fitness, etc.) or a rec center? Also, do you run on a treatmill at?

Interestingly, where I live I've counted seven (7) gyms within a 5 mile radius; 2 Planet Fitness, 2 rec centers, 1 24 Hr Fitness, 1 Chuze Gym & 1 TruFit. And most are stocked heavy with treadmills (especially 24 Hr) that are jammed packed during peak hours year round. Must be some kind of new fitness craze with year round treadmill running. ?

Allen1959 wrote:

Then I will have 18 months to prepare for the next marathon. Maybe start with a long buildup of easy mileage, followed by focused marathon training. Or maybe keep the mileage relatively low with a slow reintroduction of speedwork and some 5K racing this year, and marathon-specific training in 2019. Or a combination of the two.

There are so many ways to skin this cat. As Nike said, "Just do it!" Good luck. We will all be rooting for you.