50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Interesting selection of articles.

Fitzgerald's article is close to what I have done when running over the past 10 years. Science usually takes awhile to catch up to experience.

A long time ago I said a Recovery Run is an oxymoron.

The young bucks can recover while doing slow runs!

However we all reach a point where we any type of run is counter productive to recovery.

The problem is we older runners still need to overload to get that super compensation but we get injured much easier and we repair much slower.

I guess you have to know yourself well enough to know when to Run Hard or Long or Cross Train or Rest.

On the same note you gotta know when you have reached the limit to over loading.

I like to exercise everyday so Cross Training gives me that.

Onward!

I'll start by quoting Spikez, twice!...

Spikez wrote:

Good news: I have a #1 national and top 5 world ranking for both my events in W55, and am top 3 nationally and top 5 world in both events in W50 when counting wind-legal times.

What can you say? That.Is.A.Good.Year! Wow....

Spikez wrote:

Finally, chasing that record last year made me so focused on it that I started missing the fun of my running so I want to reclaim that very important part of our sport.

So let's have fun in 2016!

That is great advice. I set the bar far too high and set me up for failure. I'm obviously not as good as I think I am...

Struggling a bit here to get back on track after San Francisco. Took a voluntary 8 days off, then ran 8 days, then missed 5 after a nasty cold kicked my butt good. Just did 6 on the treadmill but it was rough.

Looking back on the year I have to be satisfied. My head says no as I still think there is much more there, but running all year with perpetual injuries my body has to be good with the results. Ended up with 2725 miles including a dismal December. As far as racing went: I had pretty-good-big- race age group wins at the Chicago Shamrock Shuffle 8k, Bayshore 10k, Diemer 5k; Four USATF 55-59 titles in the mile, 5k, 12k & 15k; a couple local overall wins and a 55-59 4th place at Club XC's. So yes, overall I'm happy with the year.

So looking ahead...I'm going to cut back the travel a lot. There are tons of good races around here that are drive-able. Seriously considering running the 1500 at the USATF Track Champs which are 2 hrs away in Grand Rapids.

So here's to a healthy 2016. Let's have a little more fun this year....

Yours in Running,

Dave

A happy and healthy New Year to all! 2015 was generally a good year for me although I did seem to start breaking down at the end of XC season. My race times were mostly faster than the same races in 2014 and I had fewer injuries and more training miles. I think I finished the year right around 2,000 miles. My best training year as a Master (in my 40s) was about 2,550 miles.

My late season calf injuries and loss of top end speed made it clear to me that at age 66 I need to go back to doing some strength work as well as running. So, the big picture plan for 2016 is more miles and strength work until I feel ready to get back to some regular speed/sprint workouts.

The past week was a good start with 46 miles. I ran hard yesterday and my healing soleus was sore enough today that I needed to do to a slow run/walk recovery effort this morning. However, that is an improvement from last weekend when I did a similar hard effort and had to take the following day off because of the soreness. I am going to try and be patient and slowly rebuild more strength. Probably no racing until March even if I feel healthy before then.

lucKY2b wrote:

*************************

Week 239

*************************

...

Having read all these articles, I don't feel that my walks are out of line with what they suggest; a 60-minute walk seems to be on the high end. Even so, following AlanB's suggestion, 2-3 super-easy miles following workouts will by my attempted addition. My buddy suggested using a heart-rate monitor to insure that the effort stays below 65%; not sure I'll go that far, but I might a few times just to see what that pace should be for me.

Actually 70% (+ 5% uphill, -5% downhill) of HRR.

Happy 2016! I've been procrastinating reviewing my 2015 since I thought I hadn't progressed very much. I've been so focused on rehabbing and getting back in shape from my hamstring injury that I hadn't even thought about what I accomplished during the year. In reality, it was much better than I had thought.

MILES RUN: 1756

PRO: US Rankings: #1 steeple (9th world), #4 3000m (13th world), #9 mile (9th world), U.S. Club Record 4X800, PRs in 800,1500, mile, 3000, steeple, 10K, represented team at Club XC.

CON: Not taking care of injury right away leading to long recovery time.

2016 GOALS: 3 AG races > 85%, represent team at USATF masters races, improve mental toughness, have fun and make time to enjoy friends!

Good solid week.

5 days of 90 minutes on my 200 meter 9% grade hill. Hit 75% MHR at the top and drop to 60% MHR at the bottom. This is what I call hilly hiking.

A day off for a really minor sugery that was thankfully non runner related.

A 12 mile easy pace walk in 3 hours and 30 minutes. In the Snow! Laps on Glendoveer Golf Course where they have the high school Nike Cross Nationals. This is easy effort low heart rate walking.

No hard stuff as a precaution so I do not break any stitches.

Fitzgerald's idea that we need to workout on fatigued fibers to really get a good training stimulus is very interesting. How can we do this without getting injured or delaying our recovery? Also fatiguing slow twitch fibers is very different than fatiguing faster twitch fibers. Should my fatigued workouts differ ?

Ed Whitlock was able to run/train on fatigued fibers and recovery with GREAT results in his 70s. So my plan want to train on fatigued fibers and not get injured is to take out the impact of running but will hiking and long walks really work? It should be fun finding out.

Just came across a series of articles that every mid to long runner over the age of 50 ought to read. The link is his summary of Ed Whitlock's training along with an interesting analysis. He also covers many others.

https://canute1.wordpress.com/2014/08/02/the-training-of-ed-whitlock/

Charlie wrote:

Just came across a series of articles that every mid to long runner over the age of 50 ought to read. The link is his summary of Ed Whitlock's training along with an interesting analysis. He also covers many others.

https://canute1.wordpress.com/2014/08/02/the-training-of-ed-whitlock/

Awesome link.

More reading:

https://runwestchester.wordpress.com/2010/06/27/speed-for-oldsters/

Week 239: 8 hours 3 minutes in "9" runs.

Mon,Tue,Wed - each 60 min easy

Thu - 60 min slow

Fri - 21 min warmup with 2x strides, 5K race in 20:45, 21 min cooldown (count that as 3 runs)

Sat - 2 hours easy (20.75km)

Sun - 60 min slow

Jogged down to the race start on Friday, did a couple of strides on the soccer field and jogged the finish. The last 500m is S-shaped, and I noted that in the middle part of the S the forecast 14mph wind was right in my face. I was good-nervous at the start -- going to try to break 20, using a GPS for even 4-minute kilometers. I lined up correctly for a change, and at the gun I keyed off the leaders, letting them get away but not too rapidly. Well, I don't know how fast *they* were going, but within 150m my legs started getting that weird tingly feeling like okay we are about out of anaerobic fuel. A glance at the watch showed 3:34/km pace, so I instantly dialed it back a lot, and watched half-a-dozen runners pass me. Unbeknownst to me, one of them was the eventual 1st M50-59. He finished 19 seconds ahead of me, so if I had latched on to him here and managed to hang on, it could have been interesting. Anyway, first km passed in 3:58, I knew I should pick up the pace a little, thought I did but apparently not enough. But based on my breathing, which was pretty loud, I didn't want to push much more and risk blowing up. Second km was 4:10-ish (I still haven't downloaded the data from the watch). A little after that, a course marshall called out "second woman". Hmm, that can't be right, I can see two women a little ahead of me. Turns out the marshall was right, so my eyesight without glasses is worse than I thought, and I owe some guy an apology. A bit later the second woman passed me, and I remembered her from the start. She was lined up directly in front of me, and I noticed two related items: she was wearing shorts, and she had no visible muscles at all. And here she was passing me, which I felt was a new low in running, to be passed by someone with no muscles. (When I got to thinking about it later, I felt a little better about it. She must have some muscles hidden somewhere, because you can't finish as second woman on deception alone.) There was a brief downhill moment right after 3km when the watch was showing 3:52, but I knew it was a mirage and sub-20 was not happening today. Oh well, get 'em next time. Since the second woman, I hadn't been passed by anybody and had passed only a few, but around 4km I was passed one last time. I didn't think he was in my age group (correct, he was 40-49), so at first I wasn't inclined to race him. But then we came to the S-finish and I remembered the wind. So I quickly closed the 10m gap and ran off his shoulder through the wind. Since that little sprint was like nothing, I knew I could kick, so after we turned out of the wind I let fly for the last 100m, finished 5 seconds in front of him. Final place 38th out of 1395, 2nd M50-59. My recent 5K times are headed in the right direction, so I am happy.

I'm not inclined to summarize my 2015. Life is good. It must be good, right? Otherwise why would we all try so hard to hang onto it? Goals for 2016 are to run a bunch of easy miles, run a bunch of 5Ks to find out what they are about, and figure out how to run repeat 400s without getting hurt. That last one I might fail, but if I manage it, then 2017 will be the year for my lifetime 5K PR. I'm a big believer in multi-year plans.

10 hours for the week, with 3 days of XC skiing in the mountains: 2 skate, 1 classic. Plus a couple of solid runs and weights and core. I had a good 9 day volume block there, averaging about 90 minutes. Now I'm going to take a few easy days before starting in with some speed and tempo work.

I set pretty high goals for 2015, with USATF Masters Nationals XC in February, Pikes Peak Ascent in August, and Club Cross in December, plus a dozen other races.

I did not meet my goals of top 3 in age group at the XC championship races and sub 3 & age group win at Pikes Peak. Even though I was only 8th, and got shellacked by at least three other contributors to this thread at Club Cross it was probably my best race of the year. Along the way set some age group course records at 2 half marathons and a 25K trail race. So not a star/stud, but hey, hanging in there and looking forward to 2016.

Did about 2430 miles running and another 300K of XC skiing in 2015, so that's more running than in AK but total volume down by 5-10% from the previous 4-5 years.

Plan to up the volume, do more core and upper body work than 2015 (drifted away from that until after Club Cross), and do some adjustments to training the training schedule to keep fresh. Other than planning on Club Cross in Tallahassee, not sure about 2016's schedule or other goals.

YOu need some black pepper with the tumeric to absorbe the curcumin.

2015 shows 1658 miles, plus another 6 hours on the AirDyne (stayed pretty healthy and uninjured for the year), plus averaged 2 weight lifting workouts per week. About 250 miles more than the year before.

So I averaged about 4.5 miles per day and about 45 minutes per run. That said, and that I enjoy running every day and don't like taking a day off, running 45 minutes every day as a minimum turned out to be too much for me, and I got very stale, and slightly sick (virus-like). It would appear that I should limit the days I feel fatigued to about 30 minutes run. I also know that, with 38 years of running in me (and close to 75,000 total miles), that I can handle only two hard workouts weekly. One can be a long run, one is trackwork, one is a race. So if I do two of those, the third is eliminated. So the idea of two hard workouts per week (as noted above) seem to fit what works for my body presently, and then not overdo the recovery run distance/time. I am considering purchase of a Garmin 630 soon, I can track my heartrate, stride, etc. which I have not done before, and have mostly gone with "how much can I do before my body feels wiped out and my wife says "stop complaining about your fatigue and take a day off" for a training program". Being that my Masters is in Exercise Phys, you'd think I was more scientific, but I tend to rely more on how I feel for my own training, go hard as I can, until I can't.

I turn 65 on May 5, and so would like to feel fit and healthy for that. With that, a sub-24 5 km, a sub-40 8 km, and maybe even a sub-7 track mile would be pretty exciting.

Ran 10 miles on New Year's Day, felt a bit fatigued by the end, so cannot let that aerobic base slip any more, that used to be pretty manageable a couple months ago (had slipped to 7 miles or so for a long run). So need to feel more comfy at 12 miles or more (2+ hour runs).

I was going to bust into the new year and on New Years morning came down with the worst cold of my life......

Then, the upcoming biopsy..

it's gonna be a rough January!

Double up in February!!!!

How much faster could I legitimately go?

RECENT 5K:

8:04/16;24 splits. Course is out and back, slight downhill and slight uphill finish. Same course last year: 7:45/15:45/24:__ (timing chip didn't get me) This year was a legit, full on race effort where I slowed down but kept the effort high if that makes sense.

HOW MUCH DO I RUN?

3-4 times a week usually the same three mile loop done easy/steady meaning 10 min pace. Sometimes I run an hour on the weekend.

WHAT ELSE DO I DO?

Swim twice per week sometimes three and every year I do my agex100 in a straight freestyle swim--this year (dec) was 5700

HOW FAST DID I EVER GO?

took up running at age 29

age 33: 34:50

age 34: 16:04

DO I JUST NEED TO LOSE WEIGHT?

nah 5'11" 138 #

WHAT OTHER INFORMATION IS NEEDED?

that is up to the board (hopefully!!) I don't want to waste peoples time with unneeded details

thanks in advance!!

sorry the 5K overall time was 26 flat!!

Mon. A night shift sunday night. In bed at 10.30 am after stopping on the way home for a short hilly walk.

pm. I walked 2 km into the forest then ran 10.1 km @ 5.57 km pace then walked 4 km home.

Tue. am. 2 km walk into the forest then ran 10.2 fairly hilly kms @ 5.39 finishing at home.

Wed. am. 40 mins paddling on the lake. 10.1 km running in the One Eye Forest @ 5.33 pace.

Thu. am. 25 fairly hilly mtn biking in the forests.

Fri. Up early and off to Mt Hotham with my mate Greg.

From Diamantina Hut on the mountain road ( about 1750 m asl) we hiked out to Mt Loch summit and down to Dibbens Hut on the Cobungra River to camp. About 12 kms with packs.

Sat. 15 kms of hiking with the packs. After about 9 km of easy stuff we turned up the rarely used DDiamantina Spur track, 3.5 kms and about 800 m of elevation gain. Overgrown and rearing up at 30 to 40 % @ the beginning. A heart pumping scramble up one section with a plenty of exposure and a skinny track that often brought in the hands to get up, packs were near 20 kgs as we had 4 litres of water. From the top of the spur a comfortable hike to Federation Hut at the base of Mt Feathertop. Unfortunately wild weather moved in so we left the summit alone.

Sun. A rolling 10 km hike back to Diamantina Hut via the exposed Razorback.

Winds up to 100 kph at times.

A good start to the year hitting the mountains for a few days. That disrupted my plan of 5 easy 10 km runs for the week but always worth it to get some great hiking done.

I am heading out the door now ( 7.30 am) but will try and get back to discuss someeof the topics tonight when I get home from work.

Mike Lundgren wrote:

I also know that, with 38 years of running in me (and close to 75,000 total miles), that I can handle only two hard workouts weekly.

Although I am younger (soon to be 51) and have much shorter history of running (with fewer cumulative miles), I came to the same conclusion last year. After my latest injury in March, I limited myself to one mid-week workout and a long run on the weekend. I also slowed down the rest of the week. Most of my runs are close to 9min/mile now. I have also logged over 2600 miles for the year, after being stuck at 24xx for the previous two years. I have raced five times, two 5k (22:22 SB), two half (1:36:27 SB) and a marathon (3:24:57).

My only "New Years resolutions" are staying injury free and running consistently. If I achieve those, the rest will follow.

My last two weeks.

M: swimming 1000m.

T, W, R: 7 miles.

F: off.

SA, SU, M, T, W: 4.1 miles.

R: off.

F: 5 miles.

SA: 7 miles.

SU: 11.1 miles (last mile @7:38).

I vacationed in San Diego, and stayed about 1km from Shelter Island. (It is not really an island, but connected to the mainland.) I jogged from my hotel, ran around the island, and jogged back to hotel every morning. I saw a lot of runners and walkers every morning, and most walkers are remarkably friendly to runners. (Quite a change from where I live...) Even while I was in downtown (or Barboa Park) during the daytime, I still saw many runners everywhere. It seems like quite a nice place for running.

And now that my four weeks of post marathon recovery period is over, I will start the build up for the next marathon tomorrow.

After couple of recovery weeks after club xcountry felt jet lag for about a week. I had a good first week of training not straining, Using a coach for the first time. 6 miles on easy days and 2 workouts nothing to wow about and Long run of 13 on 67 days of running about 48 miles, 2016 Goals to have fun listen to my body, run sub 17 for 5k & 35 min for 10k.