Is University of Phoenix really that bad?

Advocates for the university of Phoenix online -- you've lost your mind.

People - this a diploma mill where a cat received an MBA. Read that again -- a cat.

This is how I view the order of educational things:

1. US NEWS top 25 schools (1st tier)

2. Accredited 4 year schools

3. 2 year schools

3. Community Colleges

4. Post college fast track certificate/job placement programs

5. On the job training

...

100. Talking to Tom, the never was, from the local seafood deli at the supermarket about things like history

...

1000. Paris Hilton interviews

...

10000. Letsrun, Police academies, etc.

...

100,000. University of Phoenix online

Is it just the likes of University of Phoenix that get held in low regard, or are all online degrees undervalued?

Although I never actually completed a degree from either school, I have taken online courses offered by Indiana University's Kelley School of Business (which offers an online MBA) and Penn State's World Campus (which offers many types of degrees in a number of disciplines).

To put it more simply, is the "online" factor going to be negative no matter what?

I am glad you are so help up with education and statistics. You probably had better choices or guidance as far as selecting a more reputable college.

Advocates for other than online or for profit colleges you need to work on your human relations.

Don't be so concerned is not your life anyways. Just let it be.

Num num wrote:

Didn't learn a damn thing at UoP for a grad degree. Waste of time and money... and I'm dumb.

Be Careful! - I think University of Penn is what comes to mind when I see UoP.

Just like ASU, UCLA, USC and UVA for example, these are considered protected acronyms. As others have said, for-profit schools don’t have a great reputation in f500 corporations. With that said, it you are applying for a job with in a company, you have a good reputation and are otherwise qualified, but you need a particular degree, Phoenix might be a good way to go. I have an ex-brother-in-law who got a promotion based on his for-profit MBA, which he was able to complete in one year while working a full time job.

Btw, I think small companies might view FPS more favorably and I also know that there teaching, Gov't and public service jobs where the requirement to reach a certain level simply requires a degree (from anywhere). A FPS might be a good option in those cases.

Ellis Wyatt wrote:

Research opportunities at state schools are much better. I am not even sure if there is research conducted at University of Phoenix, but personally I've never seen any academic paper or study put out by someone employed there.

The only research conducted at U. Phoenix is in their sales/marketing dept.

You, you know what I mean.

Educated Online wrote:

Is it just the likes of University of Phoenix that get held in low regard, or are all online degrees undervalued?

Although I never actually completed a degree from either school, I have taken online courses offered by Indiana University's Kelley School of Business (which offers an online MBA) and Penn State's World Campus (which offers many types of degrees in a number of disciplines).

To put it more simply, is the "online" factor going to be negative no matter what?

Online isn't the negative part, many state schools have online programs which are reputable. It's the for-profit schools, many of which are online only, that are held in low regard.

Interestingly one poster stated that someone could cheat by having another person take a test online. This is a human phenomenon cheating happens regardless if on campus at a prestigious school or online. The integrity of the person always transcends these meager efforts to show quality of individual;s through a specific entity. Think about the reason schools are propped up to show value in the individual. It is said that the individual show there worth by attending an completing the so called academic rigors of the institute. But in reality think about what is really taking place. Someone attends a prestigious school and the value is in the individuals that had a chance to work with the person through the program, value that individuals work ethic, intelligence etc... So framing the value of an educational system with such a broad stroke is doing a disservice to the institute. I personally have respect for anyone who takes up the effort to learn more about their world in all areas. Cheats exist everywhere, look at our business world, graduates from Harvard and other top tier schools have shown a propensity to have a lack of integrity. Then I would also say the same for other institutes. So let's stop touting the institute and the value of education and learning to better society. These arguments are fruitless and petty.

A common mistake one can make in a debate is to support the other side with you own arguments. For instance, you see this now is in instances where one is calling out bad grammar but their post also contains grammatical errors! In the above case, the op, who we think has had ample time to think about the question before posting, brings a singular piece of evidence - their own success/salary - as to why UoP is better than traditional universities. Do you think a Harvard grad would make the same statement without wondering, 'how many started in our class and how many got jobs, and what was their starting salary versus another school'? However, I am not surprised because this is the kind of "critical thinking" you expect from such schools. I don't know if it is intellectual laziness that prevents people from utilizing statistics when making such bold claims or they are just paying the troll toll.

I am not against online universities. In fact many brick/mortar schools have online learning and I think it is the way of the future for certain disciplines. Today, however, even the best can only do so much with their recruits. I wonder how many high schoolers sit late at night dreaming of going to UoP?

The problem with for profit schools is that they simply do not admit enough students capable of doing college work. There are a few who can do college work - my stepsister is an example - an A student who went into the Armed Services and needed to finish college while working her state job as an investigator - but by her own admission her type is few and far between.

I am a bit amused, however, by the administration's attempts to constrain for profit colleges. Oh, I support their efforts to a degree - they admit way too many who do not belong in college and are essentially use students as a conduit for federal funds - but the for profits are scarcely different than many traditional non-profit schools. Is Boise State, a football team with a school attached and with a 12 percent 4 year grad rate (up from 5 percent a few years back), really that much different? Our demographic changes mean that fewer and fewer people are ready to do college work. And there are only so many foreign students which can foot the bill. The focus today on profit schools will quickly morph into a focus on the non-profits. And the faculty and staff at non-profits vote virtually in one direction. And interesting dilemma.

The fact is that a motivated student could use the internet to educate themselves to PHD status in almost any field without any help from anyone.

The missing piece is the physical research part. Anything that involves expensive physical testing must be done at some kind of institution.

Access to education is becoming easier and cheaper, yet schools get more expensive. Something MUST give, and it won't be that knowledge suddenly gets harder to find or more expensive to distribute.

Our present education system is obsolete, and only continues because of institutional momentum and cultural biases.

first Boise state's graduation rate is 13.9%, it's the second best school in Idaho. How dare you besmirch Boise state's good name.

Regular colleges will accept anyone these days and graduate everyone with 3.5 GPA. If you have to go Phoenix, college might not be for you. You can do well w/o a college degree if you're somewhat smart, hustle and work hard. I don't think it is no longer a must have because employers realize it was a 4-year paid vacation away from parents for at least half the graudates.

perception matters wrote:

And from a branding point of view, I've hired at some pretty big name companies and I don't think I've ever even considered someone from U of Phoenix. (HR never sent us the resume.) Maybe that was wrong, but any Phoenix grad fights a negative perception. Maybe it will be different in 20 years.

As an employer, I ask myself "why would a competent person go to Phoenix rather than to a better regarded institution?" There may be some good explanation, but most of the time it's because Harvard/Berkeley/Penn State wouldn't admit this person.

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If you pay enough they will give you a degree. This is how they stay in business. People need degrees to advance their career because someone above them made such a rule. Therefore people are willing to buy a degree from a for profit "college."

As long as the corporate structure still has degree requirements (I am not saying that they are all bad though), then there will be people who need to buy their degrees.

What do you think about online degrees from state universities? For example, Arisona State and North Dakota have online degrees in civil engineering. At North Dakota, you take classes online and then do labs in the summer. My plan is to go to school while working in a field that is related to engineering. I have a bachelor's and associate's in an engineering-related field already. Then when I'm done with the bachelor's, I was planning on doing a 1 year master's in person at my local uni.

Also, since schools like these and Oregon State have online programs, I wonder why anybody would do University of Phoenix.

Philip Exeter CC wrote:

perception matters wrote:

And from a branding point of view, I've hired at some pretty big name companies and I don't think I've ever even considered someone from U of Phoenix. (HR never sent us the resume.) Maybe that was wrong, but any Phoenix grad fights a negative perception. Maybe it will be different in 20 years.

As an employer, I ask myself "why would a competent person go to Phoenix rather than to a better regarded institution?" There may be some good explanation, but most of the time it's because Harvard/Berkeley/Penn State wouldn't admit this person.

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Personally, I am surprised there hasn't been a class action lawsuit against U. Phoenix (and others) for deceptive recruiting practices and promises of great jobs.

I don't know, but I am going to guess that U of Phoenix is pretty terrible -- they never have any athletes at nationals, indoor or outdoor. You might as well say they don't have an XC program at all. Has anyone come out of there and done anything nationally or internationally? I don't know why this thread is so lengthy -- seems to me that their record, or lack of one, pretty much settles the question.

runmg143 wrote:

Whoa there, I was just stating my opinion, not a fact.

You're clearly a marketing dweeb trying to puff up attention for U of Phoenix , not to be confused with Trump University. Only way a grad of those two places is making $150K is by making meth in the garage.

runmg143 wrote:

-for-profit school operate more efficiently

-financial competition encourages the schools to seek out better qualified teachers

-market operations governing the school promote effective decision- and policy-making

What is the evidence a "for profit" school runs more efficiently? An analogue to for-profit schools is the for profit health care system. The U.S. has one of the most expensive health care systems with the least healthy workforce in the world and relies on the "for profit" incentive to somehow lower costs and improve access. For profit systems don't do either.

Financial competition encourages choosing the lowest cost teachers, not the most qualified. This mystical org is seeking a profit, not qualified teachers.

Explain to me how Enron or Countrywide were promoting effective decision and policy making decisions. When profit is the motive, profit is THE motive, not a good education. Explain to me how for-profit Universities are doing a better job than not-for-profit universities.

Clearly another Econ 101 failure posting from his parent's basement.