Cliff Lee: One of the greatest postseason pitchers ever

As a Phillies fan, I like Oswalt but still wish they would have kept Cliff Lee and JA Happ for that matter instead getting Oswalt.

Can't complain too much about the rotation but Halladay, Lee, Hamels and Happ would be sweet.

Halladay, Oswalt, Hamels and Blanton ain't too shabby, though.

Cliff Lee rocks!

The Rangers should have pitched him on Sunday to end the series though.

Sox fans LUVVED Mariano in 2004!

Yeah, 19.2 career innings against the Sox in the playoffs, sub 1.00 WHIP and ERA, 15:2 K:BB ratio. They've really roughed him up.

2 seasons. Not enough data. On his way though.

ditto

jesse was a friend wrote:

Cliff Lee is now 6-0 with a 1.44 ERA in his short postseason career, which began last October with the Phillies.

Roy Halladay: 9 IP, 0 H, 0 ER, 8K, 1 BB... 'nuff said, love Cliff Lee, but Philly has ascended to the next level of Post season greatness-- near perfection. The one merit to Cliff is how well he (consistently) pitches against New York. You'd best believe Doctor No-No will be ready when the time comes for the Yankees, however.

Also, Philly phans can't be too disappointed with their 3rd option, Cole Hamels, who quietly pitched an outstanding game against the Reds the other night, almost on par with Tim Lincecum... not to mention he's already been a World Series MVP.

whatsup doc? wrote:

Also, Philly phans can't be too disappointed with their 3rd option, Cole Hamels, who quietly pitched an outstanding game against the Reds the other night, almost on par with Tim Lincecum... not to mention he's already been a World Series MVP.

Though I agree that Cole Hamels was very good, and he has much more of a post season resume than Lincecum, Lincecum's first postseason performance was closer to being on par with Halladay than Hamels' shutout was to being on par with Tim's. 9 innings 2 hits and 14 ks is tremendous, particularly 14 strikeouts. I'm very much looking forward to watching Timmy and Doc square off. It SHOULD be a marquee pitching matchup like none we've seen in recent history, judging by their recent numbers. Remember that Lincecum closed out September very very well.

toro wrote:

As a Phillies fan, I like Oswalt but still wish they would have kept Cliff Lee and JA Happ for that matter instead getting Oswalt.

Can't complain too much about the rotation but Halladay, Lee, Hamels and Happ would be sweet.

Halladay, Oswalt, Hamels and Blanton ain't too shabby, though.

As a Phillies fan you should realize that the Phillies were never going to have both Halladay and Lee. The idea was that they didn't have enough money for both pitchers. That's why they had to ship Lee out to Seattle in order to get Halladay. They made the decision (the right decision) that Halladay was the better pitcher, and they would pay him. They didn't have the money for both pitchers. Oswalt was a great trade for them. He has been consistently good to very good for a decade or so. Considering the fact that Halladay/Lee as a 1/2 combo was NEVER going to happen---it was an impossibility financially for the Phils, Halladay/Oswalt is about as good as it gets. If they have enough wiggle room before the World Series (which I expect them to play in), they might switch Hamels into the 2 slot to have the righty-lefty-righty combo.

The Phillies have a couple strong years left. But it looks like their system is a little depleted with all the recent trades and they won't be able to keep all their studs. I expect players like Werth to walk in free agency. Enjoy the time at the top Phillies fans because it might take a long time to get back there after this crew is broken up. Though the team seems to have a very strong business model.

Baseball Fan wrote:

They made the decision (the right decision) that Halladay was the better pitcher, and they would pay him.

Lee is perfect in the post-season. Halladay is now .500 after getting knocked around last night.

It's not so clear that Halladay is the the better pitcher.

The Phills claim trading Lee was not a money thing but they needed the prospects. Then they traded prospects for Oswalt.

You're probably right that it was really about money.

If the Phillies make it back to the World Series, Halladay needs to win at least 2 WS games to make the move to get him remotely worth it at the expense of losing Lee.

n=2. God damn you're thick.

Wendell Gee wrote:

Yeah, 19.2 career innings against the Sox in the playoffs, sub 1.00 WHIP and ERA, 15:2 K:BB ratio. They've really roughed him up.

2004 bud... 2004. howd that end for the yanks?

2004

1.14 WHIP, 1.29 ERA against the Sox in the playoff series. 6 K's vs 6 hits allowed. Yeah, they won against him, but if you have to go back 6 years to find something to gloat about, it's time to accomplish something. How's Papelbon working out for you?

I'm going to regret asking this. but what's a postseason career?

Not from US but it just does not sound logical

and what all this about Lel being continuously snake bitten?

It's like a different bloody language!

Yes - the baseball rivalry venom comes out. The hatred is strong in this one, and to think Wendell usually comes off as thoughtful, reasonable fellow. Baseball is a different matter.

For the non-US guy: Baseball's playoffs are considered postseason play. Separate statistics are kept relative to the regular season. And to be snake-bitten means to have run into a recurring series of problems or set-backs. In running this can mean recurring injury or maybe a series of second or third place finishes, although that second example would more likely be considered 'playing the bridesmaid'.

It's hard to say EVER, there have been some great pitchers who were flat-out amazing in the post-season. Plus, many great pitchers in past only got to pitch in the World Series or LCS when fewer teams went to the playoffs so some of them had limited games/opportunities to pitch lots of games. One guy that stands out in my mind is Bob Gibson -- 7-2, 1.89 ERA in three WS (went 2-1 in game sevens). Had 92 strikeouts in 81 innings and a WHIP of .889.

Part of me thinks you can't get into the greatest-ever category unless you win a WS game 7 or one that clinches a WS for your team, to go along with your other post-season stats.

toro wrote:

Baseball Fan wrote:

They made the decision (the right decision) that Halladay was the better pitcher, and they would pay him.

Lee is perfect in the post-season. Halladay is now .500 after getting knocked around last night.

It's not so clear that Halladay is the the better pitcher.

The Phills claim trading Lee was not a money thing but they needed the prospects. Then they traded prospects for Oswalt.

You're probably right that it was really about money.

If the Phillies make it back to the World Series, Halladay needs to win at least 2 WS games to make the move to get him remotely worth it at the expense of losing Lee.

Lee does seem to always show up that's true. I do believe that they got rid of him because of money, but you are a Phils fan so you probably follow them more closely, and know more. I wasn't trying to criticize you I was just sounding off. I was very disappointed in the pitching matchup last night though. I was expecting to see lights out performances by Lincecum and Halladay and we didn't get it! Hopefully that series goes deep and we see a better matchup next time around. I was glad to see a Rangers bounce back though, as I'm sure most people are. Though I still think the WS will be Yanks/Phils. Phillies in my mind are the best team in the MLB.

I hope the WS will be Yanks/Phils.

And Halladay could pitch games 1, 4 and 7 because he is strong enough to pitch on short rest.

Lee pitched in games 1 and 5 and was done for the series.

See how I have my complaints and validations lined up no matter what happens?

This year's Phillies team is better than last year. They need to execute. If they don't win I truely won't blame the trade (but I can still talk smack about it).

I really started to like Cliff Lee when he caught that fly ball in the World Series with his glove at his waste, like he was just going through the motions at practice.

I don't think his pulse ever goes above 60 no matter the pressure.

Yanks v Phils world Series would be a bore. It's a lets see what money can by series. I'd rather see some scrappy team make it. I would love to see Giants-Rangers, but I know that is wishful thinking.