24x200m at 800m pace???

Lydiadisma! wrote:

Is this session too hard to do? 1 min recovery? Just wondering if y'all have had experience with this many 200s at 800 pace. Too many? 2min recovery maybe?

It would be nearly a one hour workout if the guy is a 2 min. 800 m runner

Never heard of anyone doing that (as an approximation people tend to run twice the race distance in training for middle distance. You can manage more for shorter distances, like 800m, so three times perhaps, but six times would be extreme). Instead try

8-10x200m with 1 minute recovery

or 2x4-6x200m with shorter recovery (down to 30 seconds) and long recovery between sets

If you want to run stupid numbers of 200s, try 20x200m with 30 seconds recovery at 1500m pace

Back in HS during my PAAVO training days we would do 24-32x200. I once did 40. That was a LONG day. All around

32 or about 800m pace. :45-60s standing rest. 400m jog every 8.

Worse yet was 4-6x800 at 1600m pace. I hit 2:12-15. Standing 90-120s rest. 1600m jog every 2. The 1600m jog is a slow crawl....

Alan

back in my days as an 1:50's 800 runner a workout of 2 x 8 x 200 @ race pace with 1 min rest and 3-4 min between sets was common.

I could imagine doing a 3rd set if I was more of a distance runner type.

One of Kipketer's sessions was (supposed to be)

16X200 at 800 pace with 30 sec rest.

Coe used to do, before the start of the season:

20X200 in 26-27 with 45 sec rec (and the goal to reduce to 30)

One of Peter Coe's principles here is to run the last 1-2 200 significantly faster than the rest; If you can't do that, you ran the session too fast.

A guy like Wariner (who won't go anywhere near an 800) will start early season training with 15X200 at around ~70% max speed with 90 sec or so rest.

This kind of stuff has been around for a long time, and many Kenyans do workouts like at least 8X200 at 800 pace with 30 sec rest close to racing season. Start with something like the so-called Russian Intervals (3X4X200 with 45 sec rest/ 1 lap walk) with the object of running longer sets eventually, or Billat's 30-30 (200s at 3K race pace with equal time rest with the objective of running these closer to 800 pace with enhanced fitness).

One that we do closer to racing season (this is for D1-level athletes) is 5X400 @1500 pace with 60 sec; 2-4 min rest; 5X200 hard with 60 second rest. This teaches you to run fast when tired.

You have to consider the level of athletes mentioned here, but if you can't do these types of workouts at all, then you need more base training.

Can't you see that 5x400 + 5x200m is nothing like those 20x200 sessions you mention? If it were possible to do 20x200 at 800m pace with 1 minute recovery, then you could do 10x400 at 1500m pace with 1 minute recovery, followed by 10x200 at 800m pace with 1 minute recovery. As 10x400 and 10x200 are both full sessions, 5x400 + 5x200m is equivalent.

If Coe could do 20x200m in 26-27 with 30 seconds he should be able to run about 3:15-3:22. Of course this is 1:44-1:48 pace, so a little slower than 800m pace, but he still couldn't do that session. Same for Kipketer. I read that he ends a session when his form goes. If he attempted sessions like this, I expect he'd soon have terrible form.

Amazon Scammer wrote:

If Coe could do 20x200m in 26-27 with 30 seconds ... he still couldn't do that session.

I don't think 20x200 at 800 pace is so hard, especially if you're a 1500/3000 type. While I would be doing the above far more slowly than Coe, being a decrepit middle aged miler, it's a type of session I do about once a month (sometimes 24x200 off 45sec, sometimes 35x150 off 35sec). I can knock out 31-32s all night, and run around 2:06 for 800. There is something special about running reps of 200m or less. You can recover very quickly and never really build up a lot of lactate.

Our club actually does a winter 'trilauf' where we put people into teams of 3 and try to race 10k. Run 200, rest on the spot while your 2 teammates do a lap. The game is to try to match the world 10k record. It's quite surprising how fast everyone goes with a bit of extra motivation.

When the reps move up to 400m, it's a whole different story. Fatigue goes through the roof. 10x400 [1min] at 1500 pace is a very tough session. Just 2x400 [1min] at 800 pace would be a near-race-intensity session.

Coach D wrote:

One of Kipketer's sessions was (supposed to be)

16X200 at 800 pace with 30 sec rest.

Coe used to do, before the start of the season:

20X200 in 26-27 with 45 sec rec (and the goal to reduce to 30)

I cannot believe that kip ever did that. 25sec 200s with 30sec rest x16? no way.

The coe example is between 800 and 1500 pace.

We started around 12x200 with 40s rest at ~800 pace and built up to about 24x200 with 40s rest by the end of the season. I think I usually would end up a within a second or two at the most of my 800 pace for all of them, but well ahead of my mile pace.

The problems would start if you got ambitious and hit a couple seconds ahead of 800 pace for one or two, then the recovery would be too short and the pain would begin to compound quickly.

All the time wrote:

We started around 12x200 with 40s rest at ~800 pace and built up to about 24x200 with 40s rest by the end of the season. I think I usually would end up a within a second or two at the most of my 800 pace for all of them, but well ahead of my mile pace.

But really your saying yoiu did 24x between 800+1500 pace, not at 800 pace. I cannot believe that anyone can do that many at 800 pace unless you take 5min rests, and even then i think youd break down.

I don't believe you. I've run lots of 200m sessions, and I wouldn't say there that much difference in lactate build up.

Maybe something about being middle aged prevents you from racing properly. If you could, you'd be more like 1:56 than 2:06.

Lactate doing 10x400m at 1500m pace presumably won't be much different than 200s at 800m pace. Is there any reason to believe (approx) a quarter into 1500 lactate will be higher than a quarter into 800? In fact I think by your logic, 10x400 at 1500m pace should be a lot easier.

Its not that uncommon. I would do 30x200 with about a 55 second job for the next 200. The hard ones would be done in 29. Just a lot of reps.

as a halfmiler in college i did a 2x10x200 workout at avg27 pace on 60sec rest/2min btwn sets. i would suggest spliting it into 2 sets, it would make it much more reasonable than attempting 24 straight while still getting the benefits to the workout

as a halfmiler in college i did a 2x10x200 workout at avg27 pace on 60sec rest/2min btwn sets. i would suggest spliting it into 2 sets, it would make it much more reasonable than attempting 24 straight while still getting the benefits to the workout

sunglasses@night wrote:

as a halfmiler in college i did a 2x10x200 workout at avg27 pace on 60sec rest/2min btwn sets.

And you raced 1:4?

From a Renato thread about some Italian athletes doing amazing repeat 200 workouts but having crappy race results, like 1:51 for 800:

Particularly Andrea Bonamici was able to improve very much in speed. One his workout, for instead, was 3 sets of 4x200m recovering 45" (5 min among the sets) in about 24"5/24", with the last 200m in 23"7.

I've done 20x200 with 30sec rec in 28.94 ave (solo) and my pb was 1:47.60. Given that Coe ran nearly 6 sec quicker than me, 26/27 seems realistic. I think the 20x200 session is more of a 1500m type session and for 800m pace, you are better off going with 10x200 with 60 sec rec. I'd run these in 26 point with the odd one in 25 point, Coe would probably go 24 high 25 low with the odd one in 23 point (I would guess).

Bump.

20-24x200m @ 800 pace is very doable. But, you must be in great shape and done plenty of 400m speedwork. We used to do 16-20x200m @ 30-32secs w/60-70sec rest. The fact that you never reach full lactate threshold running 30secs, and recovering twice the effort is very realistic. But, you better have the base and strength for it.