| You got the wrong guy homes! |
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No, not afraid of the truth, it just is not the damning evidence that you are claiming it to be. Alberto Garcia was a cheat. He tested positive. Now using your correlation that because Sergio is from the same country as Alberto and he ran faster than him, he is most definitely a cheat does not hold water. You have no proof all you have is speculation. He has NEVER test positive as of yet and as far as anyone knows here he is not associated with any past dopers, trainers of past dopers, or suppliers that may implicate himself. Is there a chance that he is a cheat, yes I will admit that. You have to almost say that about any athlete these days. But you cannot label someone as a cheat unless you have concrete evidence (drug tests, evidence he was buying, him associating with characters known for doping, etc), otherwise what you are doing is considered slander. Right now all you have is speculation, no facts. Remember the phrase is “innocent until proven guilty.” |
| Suspect numero uno |
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Right now all you have is speculation, no facts. Remember the phrase is “innocent until proven guilty.”[/quote] I'll remember you when the truth comes up. |
| True Kenyan runner |
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We're talking about Sergio Sanchez. |
| You got the wrong guy homes! |
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That is sweet....I'm glad you will be thinking of me. |
| srightly inebliated |
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In all respect to your great running career Dick, and of those who you trained with, there are certain progressions/performance patterns who will always be the cause of suspicion. For instance, while no one suspects Jim Ryun to have ever touched anything more sinister than aspirin, there was/is considerable suspicion around the performances of Lasse Viren, and there always will be. On this board in recent years, suspicions cast on certain runners have turned out to be well-founded, the cases of Regina Jacobs, Marion Jones and Rashid Ramsey being most prominent.
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| FARK |
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Dick Pound should hire Letsrun posters. |
| Sergio is clean |
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Sergio is clean and mad fast! End of the story! |
| New European Record |
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Sergio is now a god in Spain! |
| Common Sense once again |
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You guys are f***in' funny... EPO won't make you 15 seconds faster over a 3000m in 4 months... Come on! When you're already training hard, it would only make you a couple seconds faster over that distance... Just look up researches on PEDS use. The guy trained harder obviously, changed his lifestyle and focus! That alone could explain a big improvement. If he's on PEDS, then he might be a 7:34-7:35 runner without it... That's still VERY FAST! You're all talking about how slow he was before... Damn... the guy ran 7:43... It's canadian outdoor NR. Sully had a hard time running 7:40 indoors... Sanchez wasn't THAT bad before.. the guy was a good runner from the get-go! Let's get real... He might be on something, but PEDS can't explain everything here... |
| Marokon Pikajuna |
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Thanks for the info. That was Seb Coes race splits in his 3000m indoor record race 1986. Not bad to be in 7.44 shape during late winter training period. |
| Marokon Pikajuna |
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Don't worry. I just wanted to know Seb Coes winter potential at 3000m during his winter training period. And it seems his formula gave 7.44. Just wondering what he might have run 3000m when really peaking, like in Rieti 86. |
| ventolin^2 |
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for 3k in rieti '86, you'd need another method : http://www.jundo.co.uk/ he was probably in 1'43.0 - 1'43.5 / 3'29.0 - 3'29.5 shape that meet -> 1'43.0 / 3'29.5 -> 4'49.4 , 7'35.2 , 13'22.9 1'43.0 / 3'29.0 -> 4'48.4 , 7'33.1 , 13'18.1 1'43.5 / 3'29.5 -> 4'48.8 , 7'33.1 , 13'16.9 1'43.5 / 3'29.0 -> 4'47.8 , 7'31.0 , 13'12.1 |
| ventolin^2 |
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for 3k in rieti '86, you'd need another method : http://www.jundo.co.uk/ he was probably in 1'43.0 - 1'43.5 / 3'29.0 - 3'29.5 shape that meet -> 1'43.0 / 3'29.5 -> 4'49.4 , 7'35.2 , 13'22.9 1'43.0 / 3'29.0 -> 4'48.4 , 7'33.1 , 13'18.1 1'43.5 / 3'29.5 -> 4'48.8 , 7'33.1 , 13'16.9 1'43.5 / 3'29.0 -> 4'47.8 , 7'31.0 , 13'12.1 |
| SJO55 |
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I would say you're being somewhat conservative with his potential at the time. His Stuttgart run (1:44.5) in rain was worth about 1:43.5 had he run 800m rather than several metres more by running wide on all 3 curves. He ran the curve after the bell, wide in lane 2, which in itself is adding more than 3.5m (or about 0.5sec) to what he should be running. His last 200m was 24.8, running the start and end of the curve slightly wide. That cost him at least 0.2. Anyone running a mid 1:43 race(even high 1:43) with a 24.6 last 200m in the rain is clearly capable of under 1:43.0. Particularly when he ran 1:43.07 the previous summer when in less than top condition. I'd also say his 1500m ability was at least 3:29.0 that day. The commentators said his stumble at the start of the last lap cost him about half a second (and probably the world record) and his first lap was way too fast at 54.0, followed by a 58.0. Not very economical pacing. The 2k and 3k projections look pretty accurate though. Btw, why is it when I put 800m at 1:42.8 and 1000m at 2:14.0 into the predictor, I get 8:03.** for 3000m and 14:28.** for 5000m? Which seem way out. |
| epopians |
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I've read that EPO use (all over things being equal) is equivalent to approx. a 2% improvement in performance for a 1500m runner. That's about 4.5 secs for a 3:32 runner, or about 9 secs for a 7:43 3000m runner. I think you are underestimating the effect it can have on these elite runners. |
| ventolin^2 |
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that's because 1k times are very weak compared to 800 times & 2'14.0 is nowhere in same ballpark as 1'42.8 despite former being in top-10 the indication is therefore that a 1'42.8 guy is losing speed very rapidly if he can only go a 2'14.0 ( over-distance endurance very poor ) tighten-up the 1k time & you get the answer ( 1500 time is a guide ) : 1'42.8 with 2'14.0 -> 3'36.0 , 5'02.2 , 8'03.3 , 14'28.4 you have 1'42.8 -> 3'36.0, which aren't in same ballpark ( but maybe good for a bucher or borza ) 2'13.5 -> 3'33.9 , 4'58.1 , 7'54.4 , 14'07.9 2'13.0 -> 3'31.8 , 4'54.0 , 7'45.5 , 13'47.3 2'12.5 -> 3'29.7 , 4'49.9 , 7'36.6 , 13'26.8 2'12.0 -> 3'27.6 , 4'45.8 , 7'27.7 , 13'06.22 ( which is approaching morceli ( albeit 1'42.8 woud be a fraction quick for him ) ) for hicham : 2'11.70 -> 3'26.3 , 4'43.3 , 7'22.4 , 12'53.9 2'11.60 -> 3'25.9 , 4'42.5 , 7'20.6 , 12'49.8 2'11.50 -> 3'25.7 , 4'42.1 , 7'19.7 , 12'47.8 the last 2 lines likely represent him at his 3'26.00 peak ( albeit we don't know if his endurance extended to 3 or 5k at the time ), but he certainly wouda beaten the 1k record then if he'd had 2 or 3 goes at it like noah |
| MAPIV |
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Ventolin, it is not at all certain that ElG "certainly woulda beaten the 1k record then if he'd had 2 or 3 goes at it like noah." There is a potentially erroneous assumption you're making and that is that ElG could move down in distance as well, or virtually as well, as Noah. The facts neither support nor refute this, leaving your certainty a rather tenuous assertion at best. |
| mbv |
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Sergio is not god in Spain. His lasts performances raises the same doubts that them raises here in letsrun. I hope he is clean, but ... |
| spanish runner |
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A god? ha, ha, ha. He is not Rafael Nadal, Gasol or a soccer player. Athletes are nobody in Spain these days. And besides, many remember what happened with Alberto Garcia and are having the same thoughts as many here in this thread, mainly because they dont want to be disapoointed again as with Alberto. Sergio was since chidhood a rare talent. In the last 2-3 year he has finally centered and begun training seriously and continously (he has always been a bit hot-headed) and he is reaping the fruit now. If Sergio is hardly known here in Spain, don´t expect that we or even he knows those american runners who someone mentioned earlier, Solinkski or such ones, and are jealous of them. As someonse else said if that Solinski would now show up out of the blue (for us and the world) and clock 7´32, here in Spain the reaction would be much the same as it is now in the states with Sergio, almost complete sureness of his guiltiness. Perhaps it is much to be expected to put much trust in the athletes these days, but it hurts to see some judgmentes so ligthtly made on athetes that are you dont know anything about because they have progressed in foreign countries. |
| Regulator |
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Sergio esta muy gay! |