Women's training and recovery thread - 8/30/09

Those are some rocking workouts, Humbled. Especially that 16 miler after what was effectively only two days of recovery. Are you formulating goals for NY at this point or taking a wait and see approach? (As you can see, I'm very goal oriented. Others are not.)

Thanks for that piece of information about Davila. That really puts an impressive perspective on her run in Berlin. I'm not nationalistic, mind you, but it would be great if this nascent resurgence of American running turned out to be real. If only for the increase in media coverage and inspiration to younger runners to go out and try.

This was a down week for me. I'd forgotten that I'm usually tired during recovery weeks and that I eat like a horse. This week I'm back up to 90 and hoping to run most of them in our suddenly reasonable weather.

http://raceslikeagirl.com/2009/08/30/summer-basebuilding-week-9/

nice to see good weeks for both of you, and that health/injury issues seem to be in your respective pasts. after four days on crutches and then another two hobbling around awkwardly, i successfully got back on the bike midweek and logged a total of 150 miles, including one longish ride (61 mi). so the good news is that it looks like a go for the 100-mile AIDS fundraising ride in a week and a half, but the bad news is that i still have to concentrate on every step i take to not re-tweak my ankle ligament (even a couple of steps in cycling shoes is very risky in this respect). i expect it will be another couple of weeks until i can hike, and i'll be happy if i can try running two weeks after that -- in all, a much longer recovery period than i had looked forward to when i was first sidelined in june. the short-term hope is to have enjoyable and energetic ways to play outside once the weather turns chilly, which will happen mighty soon (overnight lows are already in the mid-40s sometimes), and hiking will at least be a step (literally) in the right direction.

Well, there might be hope for me yet!

Monday - day off

Tuesday - 1.5 hours on the elliptical

Wednesday - 1.5 hours on the elliptical

Thursday - 7 miles easy (8:40 pace)

Friday - 9.25 miles easy (8:50 pace)

Saturday - 7 miles tempo (2 mile warm-up, 1 mile hard (7:42), 1 mile easy, 1.25 miles of 1/4 mile hard, 1/4 mile easy (~1:56, 2:10; 1:52, 2:10; 1:51), 1.75 mile cooldown). Didn't go too fast on these because of my current leg problem, but wanted to get something a little faster in.

Sunday - 20 miles (averaged 8:31 pace! and it felt pretty easy!) My main goal for the marathon is 3:40 (BQ) which is 8:25 pace, so to be able to do 20 at 8:31 pace with tired legs and have that feel pretty easy is a real confidence booster.

43.25 miles for the week...in 4 days

As for my leg....I cross trained for a couple days to see if that would help. It didn't seem to be getting any better. Thursday morning I went to a sports chiropractor. He started pressing around near my knee, asking if it was tender. It wasn't tender....it hurt! I didn't realize it hurt all the way down there. So he proceeded to do a deep tissue massage from the inside of my knee to a little above mid-thigh. It was quite possibly the most painful thing I've ever been through. I was actually sweating because it hurt so much. He also did some other stretches, etc. I asked him if I should stop running and he said no. He doesn't think the injury is that bad (if something was torn, etc I wouldn't have been able to do a lot of the things he was having me do). He thinks I probably strained it a little and then taking those 4 days off just caused everything to tighten up. By friday morning I was able to walk without pain! Running is so much better too...not 100% better, but I would say 70% better. Now the pain seems more localized to the hip flexor area, rather than down my whole leg. So the pain is a lot less and I hardly limp at all at the beginning of my run. I am going for another massage on wednesday (a lady who does the muscle release therapy) and will probably try to get in for a couple more after that. I'm hoping that will continue to improve this. But I feel much more confident that I can still get some decent running in, and finish the marathon. I am also heating, icing, and stretching a lot!

Posting on my Birthday and heading out soon to see my ART guy for treatment, I go twice a month now as opposed to every week.. funnily enough he came to get a massage from me on Friday..aggh no pressure, actually it went well and he said he would re-book.

60 miles in 6 days with the customary Monday off to run in the pool an hour, did 22x60secs hard and the same recovery, love the theraputic effects of the water on the legs.

Also did several double days and a 14 for the long one which became a challenge at 12 when I got light headed due to improper hydration.

One speed day of 8x 2mins hard with 1 min recovery and looks like the weather will break so harder work outs will at least feel better with cooler temps.

Glad that BQ was able to get some good massage work, I must be biased but it is so very helpful to athletes in the hands of a skilled therapist anyway.

Keep up the good work one and all. GOT BOUNCE?

Tigger does :o)

A4BQ, if you're doing a 20 mile run at 6 seconds slower than goal Mpace and it feels pretty easy, then you have two options:

1. Plan to run a sub-3:40, knowing that not only should it be a cakewalk for you, but it should actually be very enjoyable too!

2. Lower your goal. I would hazard that, assuming no injuries/good conditions/yaddayadda, you're capable of something much faster than 3:40. If you could swing a 22 miler at the same pace as what you just ran, you're probably looking good for a 3:15 race (or better).

The usual caveats: I'm not an expert, so my advice may be worthless, dangerous or both. But one rule of thumb is whatever time it takes you to comfortably run 22 miles is roughly equal to what you can achieve rested, tapered and racing in a marathon.

after a down week last week where I was still trying to recover from my bad fall, knee was hurting, ragweed was high, I dropped from a 1/2 marathon - never should have started it....

but had a fantastic week this week - only 50 miles, but a very good interval w-out, speed w-out and excellent 8 mile run on Sunday. the lower temps really helped.

so much going on...busy with work and helping coach some.

happy birthday Sarah! everyone have a great week.

Hey all -- cooler weather has hit DC as well. This (Monday) morning was absolutely perfect.

Nice running, Humbled. Do you have trouble sleeping after running marathon pace at night? I find that if I do anything other than a recovery run at night, I'm too jazzed to sleep.

RLAG -- I also find recovery weeks draining. Part of me suspects that it's from drops in endorphin levels.

NLS -- please take care. I'm sorry your recovery period is so long. I'm glad you can do the AIDS ride, though.

A4BQ -- I agree -- I think massage plus continued workouts will help you a lot more than just taking time off. Nice 20 miler!

Happy Birthday, Sarah!

As for me, this was a forced recovery week – business travel plus all day meetings followed by mandatory dinners and catching up on other work put a real crimp in my workouts. I did manage to squeeze in 62 miles, which broke down as follows:

Monday: Nothing, save dragging luggage from DC to Tampa to Chicago to Green Bay, WI.

Tuesday: 9 miles easy outside in Green Bay, WI (8:17 pace).

Wednesday: 5.5 miles very easy (9:16 pace) on a gym treadmill in Green Bay, plus weights.

Thursday: 13 miles, including a failed workout. Was shooting for 6x800 on the Green Bay gym treadmill. Barely made it through 2x800 at 6:14 pace. After catching my breath, I tried mile intervals at 7:05 pace (my normal tempo pace for 3 to 8 miles is 6:50-6:55 ish). I completed 2 intervals, but struggled on those too. I then settled for short sprints of .15 miles at 5:24 pace, which should normally be fun, not hard, but I struggled on those. Dunno, maybe it was the travel stress, or the fact I left my inhaler at home, or an allergic reaction (my face was also swollen) or maybe the treadmill was miscalibrated. I’m just going to write it off, and try not to let it bug me.

Friday: 6.5 miles easy outside (8:26 pace) plus weights. Also dragged luggage back to DC via Chicago.

Saturday: 12.5 miles total. In the morning, 10 miles easy outside (8:18 pace), and then yoga. Later, I did another 2.5 miles very easy (8:38 pace) as part of running errands.

Sunday: 15.5 miles outside, including two four mile tempo intervals at 7:02 pace (uphill) and 6:55 pace (downhill), with full recovery between the two. This workout is less consistent than it looks – I didn’t take my shotblok halfway through, and bonked on the downhill interval, which should have been closer to 6:45 pace. I’m still decently happy with this, though (not a bad thing to have to force yourself through a bonk now and then). Also did 10 hill repeats of 14 seconds each on 17% slope.

Yeah, I definitely think 3:40 shouldn't be a problem, based on my training (and assuming no major injuries or illness (intestinal issues ruined my marathon last year!), and decent weather). But I'm a little nervous to name a new goal time, so I'm just training as best I can and we'll see what happens I guess...how far under 3:40 I can go. As long as I'm under 3:40 I'll be happy!

For the most part I run my long runs based on feel....I just try to stay comfortable....if I'm feeling good I end up running faster, if I'm tired it ends up a little slower. But I don't think I've had many long runs over 8:45 pace. This 20 miler actually was a faster pace than the 18 miler I did the week before (8:38 pace). A few weeks ago I did 12 averaging 8:10 pace, which felt great!

I'm planning on doing a half-marathon this weekend and then the following weekend I'll do a 22 miler. I think those will be good tests of where I'm at.

Darkwave, are you living in the DC area? Whereabouts? Belong to any running clubs?

Yup. I'm in DC proper, and run with the Washington Running Club (though I'm generally a no show for weekend runs -- schedules are tricky things).

Based on what you've written, if you're in DC I'm thinking I might have been introduced to you once or twice -- does your first name start with M?

darkwave wrote:

Yup. I'm in DC proper, and run with the Washington Running Club (though I'm generally a no show for weekend runs -- schedules are tricky things).

Based on what you've written, if you're in DC I'm thinking I might have been introduced to you once or twice -- does your first name start with M?

Yes indeed! Are you coming out this Sunday?

my feet are too small (and, hey, i'm not exactly running these days), but any of you who wear a size 8M and like saucony should check out the following thread:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3193363

saucony is looking for female footwear testers, so if the shoe fits...

hi ladies-

was wondering if any of you have ever suffered from achilles tendonitis or tendonosis. i am on my 3rd week off of running. i have been going to see an ART therapist and have been doing the eccentric heel drops/raises. plus rolling on foam roller. do any of you have any suggestions as to what else i can do to treat this? i have been aqua jogging and swimming. is the elliptical bad for this?

thanks.

hsb

I'm CB :) Most identifiable by my long black braided ponytail.

Generally, I don't make the Sunday long runs -- basically weekends are the only times my (non-running) boyfriend and I get to see each other, and I really hate to kick him out early on Sunday morning so I can meet the club. Now that I'm doing speedwork again, I'm doing the Tuesday track workouts.

I think I just added you on Facebook.

I had a bout of it this spring. Each person is an experiment of 1; however, here's what worked for me.

1) single leg eccentric heel drops (I still do these, twice a week).

2) Massage + ultrasound to break up the scar tissue

3) Staying as active as I could - I'd run as long as it was just "pulling", not actually hurting. As soon as I felt sharp pain, I'd hop off the treadmill and onto the arc-trainer (I did all my running on the treadmill, so I didn't take one more step than I had to).

I fully believe that staying as active as you can promotes bloodflow and the healing process. In my case, the arc-trainer was a decent substitute for running.

If you're not already seeing a physical therapist, I recommend that you start. I also think that the aqua jogging and elliptical are both good alternatives to running.

darkwave wrote:

Do you have trouble sleeping after running marathon pace at night? I find that if I do anything other than a recovery run at night, I'm too jazzed to sleep.

That's never been a problem for me. Plus, keep in mind that marathon pace for me these days is pretty modest (8:30ish). But I used to do much harder runs - including intervals - in the evening as well.

RLAG, in response to your question about marathon goals, it's less about time for me (though I certainly hope to run under 4:00) than pacing and how I feel during the race. Specifically:

*Run even or negative splits.

*Retain some memory of the last miles of the race. (Amnesia sets in somewhere in the Bronx in NYC#1, and in Harlem in NYC#2.)

*Don't fade on the long, uphill stretch of 5th Ave.

For training purposes, I'm treating 8:30 as marathon pace, but that's different in my mind than having 3:40 as a time goal . . . if that makes any sense.

To the fellow achilles sufferer (sorry, I forget your handle): one thing I learned the hard way was to stay away from hills. Other than that, no words of wisdom, just commiseration.

*Run even or negative splits.

*Retain some memory of the last miles of the race. (Amnesia sets in somewhere in the Bronx in NYC#1, and in Harlem in NYC#2.)

*Don't fade on the long, uphill stretch of 5th Ave.

Oh, hallucinating in Harlem and walking up much of 5th Ave. And debating whether to walk or jog the last couple hundred meters (I jogged it!) Fond memories from my first marathon! NYC is tough!

Hi. Sorry for the late update - I moved into a new flat and I don't have internet yet. I can access email from my mobile phone but posting on letsrun doesn't work. Anyway I'm at a community centre right now.

Humbled - I'm happy to hear the weather has turned for the better and that sounds like a nice week of running.

RLAG - glad to see your recovery week went well.

nls - please be careful

Aiming for BQ - please be careful too!

Sarah - happy birthday :) and I hope you had a nice day

16x - that's great things are picking up for you now following that nasty fall.

darkwave - hoping for a more relaxing week for you next week

As for me, progress has been slow. It seems every time I do anything that's beyond a few minutes walk it flares up and I end up in pain. I see the hospital physio on Friday so I'm going to ask what I should be expecting at this stage. It's only 3 weeks on so I don't know if I'm trying too much but last time she said I was being too cautious and should be doing a lot more. Hopefully it will improve soon.