Branch Chain Amino Acids (BCAA) sources

BCAAs are just leucine, isoleucine, and valine. BCAAs make up 1/3 of muscle tissue and leucine in particular is the 'ignition switch' for protein synthesis. Yes, you still need complete protein sources in your diet as they are your "building blocks", but a BCAA supplement does not need to be broken down like other protein sources and so are immediately taken up by the muscle, increasing protein synthesis and even can be used as direct muscle fuel.

All complete proteins contain BCAAs...eggs, whey, beef, fish, pork, chicken, etc.

A whey product has a higher BV than other food source products and so more of the product is assimilated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_value).

Typically, whey will have 5-7g BCAA per serving included (ie: of the 30g, 5-7g are a combination of leucine, isoleucine, and valine). So, a 30g serving will have 23-27g protein of which 5-7g is BCAA.

Now, if your goal is to get more BCAAs then take a BCAA supplement. The BCAAs fight for absorption with all of the other amino acids in a complete protein like whey. So, if you want to get the BCAAs into the muscle as quick as possible take a BCAA supplement.

My suggestions:

1. If you just want more protein in your diet that is low-fat/low-carb and don't feel like cooking chicken breast or fish every two seconds...get a quality whey product.

2. If you want something to take for pre/post or even during workout, take BCAAs. .2g/lb bw peri-workout. If you're on a strict diet and are trying to lose fat while maintaining muscle mass then consume an additional 10g BCAA between meals (ie: meal, 2 hours later BCAA, 2 hours later meal, etc).

Alan

Muscle Milk contains casein, which is a slow absorbing protein. If the goal is just fuel then it's ok. If it's recovery and glycogen replenishment you'd want something that's low in fat (0 preferably), high in whey protein and carb (glucose, dextrose, or maltodextrin). It also contains fructose, which is slowly absorbed as it does not bypass the liver like dextrose or maltodextrin.

Alan

Why do you want low fat if your goal is recovery and glycogen replenishment? Does it really matter, or are you just thinking it's not worth the extra calories? Is there anything to show that fatty acids influence recovery/glycogen loading in a negative way?

[quote]Runningart2004 wrote:

If it's recovery and glycogen replenishment you'd want something that's low in fat (0 preferably)...

Good stuff. Thanks!

I think the general thinking is that fat inhibits protein uptake? I could be wrong....

Correct. Ingestion of fat with protein inhibits protein absorption.

Just think logically. Fat is a large molecule. Why make things complicated for the body? Simple carbs on the other hand create an "insulin shuttle" so that the nutrients (amino acids) are shuttled to the muscles quicker. This is why you see old school drugged upbodybuilders in the 80s shoot up with insulin post-workout.

Alan

Alan,

Question for you. I generally need to do my runs after work. From the point where I finish my workout to the point where I can get home and get an actual meal is somewhere between 60 & 75 min, sometimes a little more. For optimal recovery after a hard workout, what should I do? I've been taking a meal replacement drink (Boost) that has about 40g of carbs and 10g of protein (the magic 4:1 ratio that you hear about). However, based on what I've been reading on here and elsewhere lately, I'm thinking that's not much protein and I might be better off with something that has some BCAA's. On the flip side, something like a whey protein powder only has around 6g of carbs, which seems light on that side of things if you're looking to replace glycogen. Anyway, when you know it's gonna be an hour or more before you get a real meal, what's your opinion on the best sort of post workout drink to maximize recovery? Keep in mind I need something transportable. Thanks in advance!

Runningart2004 wrote:

This is why you see old school drugged upbodybuilders in the 80s shoot up with insulin post-workout.

Alan

Is that why insulin was part of the regimen Victor Conte had his athletes on?

You got it!

Mix BCAA with your Boost.

Or

Mix whey protein powder with your Boost.

Alan

So is all this 4:1 carb-to-protein ratio for optimal recovery that Endurox and others talk so much about a load of crap or what? Looks like any drink that has a fairly high protein content won't be anywhere near 4:1. More like 1:1.

arnolds wrote:

So is all this 4:1 carb-to-protein ratio for optimal recovery that Endurox and others talk so much about a load of crap or what? Looks like any drink that has a fairly high protein content won't be anywhere near 4:1. More like 1:1.

Maybe a load of crap, maybe not. I don't think there has been a lot of extensive, independent research on sports nutrition, as it is not exactly a public health priority (unless you own a supplement company). Endurox claims seem to be based on awfully small smaples. Nevertheless, under current regulations, many claims can be made as long as they don't claim to cure specific health problems. Some folks love to spend money on themselves for stuff like this. It sure is easier than doing miles repeats!!!

You can always mix up your own 'endurox' with whey protein and powdered gatorade. Of course, this will be missing the magical chinese root ingredient with its amazing recovery properties (ciwejia root or something like that)

Caveat emptor is the rule of the day!!

Good luck.

Why have all the studies shown that chocolate milk is just as good for recovery? It contains casein in addition to whey so why wouldn't that slow absorption? Maybe getting very fast uptake is not as important as it seems?

Bolt Fan wrote:

Why have all the studies shown that chocolate milk is just as good for recovery? It contains casein in addition to whey so why wouldn't that slow absorption? Maybe getting very fast uptake is not as important as it seems?

Maybe the casein doesn't interfere with the whey uptake. I think the main drawback to taking the chocolate milk as opposed to a protein supplement would be increased calorie and fat differential. And I do like chocolate milk!!

I think the most important factor is just having the protein avaialble for repair over a period of time. So, taking a variety of proteins (whey supplements/cottage cheese/chicken) is probably best.

Research can be misleading...and you're right about just getting the nutrients there isn't everything...

Experience trumps research...many elite level strength coaches and nutritionists catering to athletes would say milk is not the best idea and would agree that that whey + carb or bcaa + carb is optimal.

Also, recovery is about more than just glycogen replenishment. Will consuming less protein with the drink be optimal for glycogen replenishment? Probably, but what about the state of the muscles themselves? Muscles need amino acids, and getting these amino acids there as quick is possible is the best way to start the recovery process. Worried about hydration post-workout with so much protein? Drink more water and you wouldn't have to. Endurance athletes tend to be chronically dehydrated.

Also, you're not just going to consume one post-workout shake or meal and call it a day. You have a window of about 1-2 hours post-workout to work with. Studies don't work in real world conditions. Many studies are done in a fasted state as well, again not realistic.

The sugars in milk are undigestable by 75% of the population.

Alan

Put a packet of amino vital in whatever you drink post workout.

arnolds wrote:

So is all this 4:1 carb-to-protein ratio for optimal recovery that Endurox and others talk so much about a load of crap or what? Looks like any drink that has a fairly high protein content won't be anywhere near 4:1. More like 1:1.

The "magic ratio" study cited by Endurox did NOT compare different ratios of carbs to protein. It compared a 1:4 protein/carb drink, an isocaloric pure carbohydrate drink, and water. It found that the protein/carb combination increased glycogen reuptake post-workout in the muscles vs. the other two. So, it does not prove that 1:4 is the ideal ratio. it's not a bad place to start, but I'm willing to bet that 1:4 isn't the perfect ratio. I don't have my handy-dandy bag of links right now, so I can't cite the study. Maybe later today I'll find it.

***

Alan,

As you said, the majority of the world is lactose-intolerant. So let's take our generic lactose-intolerant runner, just back in from a 10-mile run. Everyone seems to be in agreement that he needs water, carbs, and some kind of protein. But would a recovery shake consisting of carbs and BCAAs be any superior to one consisting of normal protein powder? Presumably you'd have to take less BCAAs than protein powder for the same effect, am I correct?

Correct.

BCAAs are a special case. BCAAs produce a pretty measureable insulin spike. BCAAs can also be used as immediate muscle energy. They bypass the liver. I'd suggest 10g BCAA in place of 30g whey. 10g pre run, 10g during run, 10g post run would be optimal for a 140lb runner. Include 20-40g simple carbs. Hey...40g carb/10g BCAA...there's your 'magic' ratio...;)

I'd opt for the powder form as you can mix it with stuff (don't mix beforehand as it degrades) and it's cheaper than the pills.

I'm not a fan of pre-mixed whey powders for post-workout. A product will have a mix of hydrolyzed, isolates, and maybe even concentrates. If using protein powder pre and post workout you want nothing but hydrolyzed whey....you can get that by the pound at places like trueprotein.com. Now, if just using the protein for 'food', then get something that is mixed (whey isolates, concentrates, casein, egg, etc).

If you won't want to spend the dough on protein powders...drink up or cook up some egg whites. 1c egg whites have 26g protein....but that's a lot of egg whites!

Alan

Runningart2004 wrote:

I'd opt for the powder form as you can mix it with stuff (don't mix beforehand as it degrades) and it's cheaper than the pills.

Alan

Your tips on dissolving the powder with liquids? How soon the degrade begin?