Alcoholics Anonymous vs. Rational Recovery

Henry Rono wrote:

Also use weight exercises, weight lefting and breathing exercises through out your entire body.

Stay busy all day by doing physical work than doing mental work such as thinking too much.

Dont get on an arguement with anyone.If you do stay positive and greatful.

Stay away from negative spirit and despair.

Five things to watch:

Being Hungery

Being Tired

Being bored

Being Angry

Being Lonely

Get back to me if you want.

Henry Rono

I tried both before coming to the conclusion that it's easier to just be an alcoholic.

I have had many and I mean many relatives on my Irish side need to take the cure for the drink.

I have seen recoveries that were literally miraculous and miracles are not exactly rational. We are talking scary, violent and even somewhat delusional people turned into productive, friendly and enjoying life and family.

I suspect that you are looking for a miracle.

Look at this way, if you go to AA you access both treatment

options: spiritual and therapeutic.

Go to the RR and you get half the picture.

This is no time in your life to be worried about hip and modern. Go get your life back.

Intergalactic wrote:It seems as though RR wants to say that all you have to do is truly decide for the rest of your life that you don't want to drink/drug again, and then detach from every thought that says otherwise.

If you are going to stop drinking, this is what has to happen. Because if you DO want to drink again, and think you can handle it, AA or RR, or your family, boss friends etc. will not stop you.

I stopped on my own because I knew I would die. Family, friends and professional peers have died since then (11 yrs), due to alcohol. I would not suggest this method to others unless they are confident in their ability to be honest w/ themselves.

We all have our tricks to not drink. AA provides a nice bag of them. To say that, "Without AA the alcoholic will die" is nonsense, and moves AA into the realm of a cult.

bump

I don't know what meetings you guys are going to. I've never witnessed condescension, judmentalism, etc., at AA meetings. Quite the opposite. This could be because I live in Seattle, a "progressive" city. Anyways, the mentality of recovered people at my meeting is

"I don't know whether you're an alcoholic; only you can decide that for yourself. If you are, you can decide to stop drinking --- or not. No harm in trying, however, because you find that quitting sucks, you can always go right back to drinking. If you decide to stop, I can tell you that this program worked for me. I go to these meetings to help myself stay sober: that's my primary concern."

You sure are anxious to kick somebody's ass- looks like your program's worked absolute WONders for you! The poor guy's just trying to save his Mother and all you can do is trash him AND her... "Mommy"?! How sarcastically childish... If the "people of all kinds" you maintain you have to be around to get sober includes YOU, there's going to be plenty of folks high-tailing it to the nearest bar! Think you need to do tons of inventory and make even MORE amends dude...

I understand your question. I have similar questions myself.

I am not an alcoholic, but I have something else. Maybe even worse, I don't know. I am Sex and Love Addict, 1 year in recovery, and just struggling. 1-2 months of sobriety, but the magic hasn't happened yet. Relapsing all the time.

Of course I also ask myself: Why is it not working yet? Why do other people get sober more easily?

I have not had any spiritual event. Maybe I have not suffered enough yet?

I feel that I need a well-defined belief, otherwise it will not work. I can not work with beliefs of others, and I can not accept the idea of "choosing" or "making" my own higher power. Either there is a God or not, but I have not seen/felt anything specific on this issue. But I can not start believing in creating my own God and then working with it. I tried, and it fell apart. Can't work with christian God either, due to bad adolescence memories from church. I do enjoy to watch documentaries about different historical approaches to spiritualism, it makes me feel good. Maybe there is really a need in me for this, I just haven't found anything which is good for me. What works.

I do have a sponsor, I am at Step 1. Answering questions. Struggling.

Rational recovery seems to be too weak to me. But that is just my own experience. I tried similar things working with a councellor, or actually two councellors in a clinic. All the tricks and decisions, they just don't stick. All the buddhist type of mindfullness, it just does not stick. Observing myself: hasn't worked yet. I have cravings lasting many days, becoming stronger each day. At the beginning I am like in RR, knowing that it is the addictive voice. I accept the craving, but I also accept that I don't have to follow it. It is not me. But then sooner or later a time comes, when I forget all this, and the addictive voice becomes ME. And then, eventually, "I" have to act out. So far this happened all the time. Like a second personality, which always comes, no matter what. It comes back, and then it is ME.

Maybe this is powerlessness?

I would love to get feedback on my story too.

Also, I understand all the remarks about the behaviour of some of the people here. I go for my problem to an S-fellowship, which I find way better in this respect. I don;t know really why, but fact is, that in the case of sex addicts like me, people in the 12-step program are less direct, there is less cross-talk (actually really zero), names are really not mentioned, etc etc. Everyone respects the way the other person is, and the addicts just know that direct "attack", no matter how well-intended just does not work for most of the addicts. This is why nobody gives messages or opinions like a few people did here.

See, I went to Skype AA meetings. I was 7 days sober. And people mentioned me by name (!) and also my lenght of sobriety in their shares, encouraging me, and all this stuff. Now this I did not like. And it never happens in my fellowship, although it is based on the very same 12 steps and 12 traditions. We just don't mention each other in shares, and don't give advice, unless specifically asked for after the meeting in a private conversation.

What do you mean when you say you are a year in recovery but relapsing all the time ?

You aren't in recovery if you are relapsing son. Thats your problem, you aren't being honest with yourself.

I mean, I keep coming back, answering questions for the steps, talking with my sponsor, making outreach calls. This is what I mean by "being in recovery".

26 sober years for me, and without any spiritual guidance. I've been an atheist since high school (50+ years ago).

But that I haven't needed one of those higher power programs doesn't mean a damn thing.

Some do, some don't. I have good friends for whom nothing ever worked until AA. They aren't religious.

I'm amazed at the "only one way" thinking in a lot of this thread. That's bullshit.

You keep experimenting until you find what works for you, whatever it is, and then you stick with it.

To answer the question that so many have refused to. I attended my first Rational Recovery meeting in Clearwater, Fl. In 1991. It was the first time I felt understood in my belief system. I have been using the Small Book for references ever since. AA turned me off right from the beginning. I wanted, needed help and what they gave me was a religious cult. I did not want to hold hands with complete strangers, or chant an infantile religious chant. I did not want to admit I was powerless, because I knew I wasn't. I didn't feel a connection to these groups, but I did give them a try, for many years. I felt like I was always betraying myself though. I knew there must be a better group out there, for people like me. I'm glad that people find help with AA. BUT, to say it helps everyone, and that it's the ONLY way, is simply absurd. It's saying we are all alike. Get your hands on the Small Book, see if it makes sense, and then decide. It was like a second treatment option for my cancer. I took it, and it worked.

That is hy-larious. Runners are some of the most f-d up people around.

I'm a runner with almost 19 years of sobriety. Recovery is a process and relapse is part of it. I tried AA for four years before I got clean and sober.

There are AA groups that are judgmental. I've lived in a lot of places and it's a problem in smaller communities.

The religious aspect of AA is made too much of in my book. It's just one of the tools.

When I finally got sober I hit a lot of meetings for about two years and slowly backed away. I don't go often but I go when I feel the need to listen to folks that are hurting to remind myself just how far I've come.

The two main things I've learned is this, it really is just one day at a time and today is all I've got. Once that sunk into my head. It's worked so far.

I'm a problem drinker if not an alcoholic. I've been to many meetings and I can't harp on something that seems to work for a lot of people. However, it's obvious to me that a lot of people go to meetings just for group therapy, so they can dump all their feelings on a group of nonjudgemental strangers. Many AA'ers are complete headcases even after years of sobriety. I'm afraid I'll become like that if I give myself up to the program. For me, what's helped is being honest with myself, figuring out what I want in life and if I want it bad enough that I can sacrifice getting obliterated when the desire arises.