Questions about training VO2 Max

How long does it take do really begin to improve your VO2max by doing one workout per week?

How much is the rest if I were to do 1800's

In my opinion, every training that you do should be done with the intention of improving your race times. If your race times are improving then your training is working for you which is what you want, right?

good question

bump

Not true. You may see improvements initially, but over time too much VO2max training will lead to fatigue and could lead to staleness (overtraining). You may see rapid improvement in the first couple months, but when it comes time for your biggest (most important) races late in the season your body may be struggling to hang on and performance declining. I've seen this firsthand with athletes I've trained too hard with too many VO2 workouts. They eventually hit the wall before racing to their full potential.

It takes 10-14 days to see any improvement from one session of VO2 max training, and 20-28 to get the full effects from that session. Thus, you would need about 3 weeks or so of doing them once a week before you start seeing any improvements.

If you're training for the 5k or 10k, you should probably start VO2 max sessions 8-10 weeks before your planned peak race. If you try beginning any serious VO2 max sessions before that, many runners (not all) could peak too early.

You want about a 1 to 1 ratio for recovery on VO2 max sessions (or slightly less rest if you're doing it at 5k pace and not 3k pace). Thus, if you're doing your 800s in 2:20 and that is your 3k pace, take 2:20 to rest. If those 800s are only 5k pace, then you may only need 1:30 or so for rest. 1800s may be a bit too long for VO2 max session. The ideal length for repeats is about 3 minutes long (it'll take 1-2 minutes to reach VO2 max, so you stress it for 1-2 minutes).

West Coast runner, well I will ask you a question - Do you coach your runners to improve race times or to improve V02Max?

once every week or two, reps of 3-7 minutes, 3 to 5 reps, 1 to 1.5 times rest interval, 95% max heart rate for last 2 minutes, finish almost full race effort.

Start with say 3 X 4. gradually add time or number of reps.

VO2 Challenged wrote:

1) How do we know that training at around 3k-5k pace REALLY is the best way to increase our VO2 max?

I used to wonder that too, since I was always able to run at paces that were faster than my current 3K race pace when doing repeats. However, after trial and error I was able to find what worked best for me.

I used to be coached by a guy that preached agressiveness on the track. He said that the way to improve the most is to be as agressive as possible when doing interval workouts. I used to hammer my workouts, especially the 6*800. My workout times got significantly faster, but when it came time to my actual race (after a steady 2 months of these workouts), I was shocked to discover that I actually got slower by running faster workout times. It seemed counterintuitive at the time.

Then I started reading up on the subject of V02 max training in books by Scott Douglas and Jack Daniels. I decided to start training in the 3K to 5K window, and as they illustrated, running them faster than that is actually counterproductive (at least for 3K and up). Sure enough, within 2 months I was able to knock 50 seconds off of my 5K PR.

Training between 3K and 5K pace worked best for me, as I'm sure it has for many others. If you're still not sure I suggest you try each method for 8-10 weeks and then see what works best for you.

Train to race and you will improve Vo2max as a by product. Take a simple approach to training. Example:

5k training:

1. Most of your hard work should be at 5k "effort"

2. Some of your hard work should be faster to build "speed"

3. Some of your hard work should be slower to build "endurance"

Example:

Week 1: Workout one at 5k effort, workout two at mile effort

Week 2: Workout one at 5k effort, workout two at 10k effort

Week 3: Workout one at 5k effort, workout two at 3k effort

Week 4: Workout one at 5k effort, workout two at half-marathon effort

Get my drift?

10k training:

1. Most of your hard work should be at 10k "effort"

2. Some of your hard work should be faster to build "speed"

3. Some of your hard work should be slower to build "endurance"

"effort", "speed", and "endurance", are relative terms. Meaning they have different meaning relative to your race.

One word should dominate your training no matter what distance: SPECIFICITY. There are many different ways to skin a cat, but you still have to skin it.

Train at 3k pace all the time to improve Vo2max and when your goal 10k race comes up and you've done little work at that effort you'll have trouble.

Alan

running art, great post as always. tell us how your prs have come down over the last few years using this method. thanks!

A lot depends on what level of fitness you are at when you begin training. If in pretty poor shape then any running you do will increase VO2max -- even slow running since that will be increasing vasularization and eliciting desirable cellular changes. Later on you start stressing your body's ability to work at max, so you get used to working at max stroke volume, max aerobic performance. Naturally, how often you can afford to do any specific type of training depends on how much you do when you do it. Once a week may be adequate, but twice may not be overdoing it if not spending a great deal of time on it. The 3k or 5k guideline can be missleading since some people take 30 minutes to race a 5k and that is more like a good runner's 10k pace, etc.

I'm 28 and short race PRs come at a premium. At this point I'm more interested in my shorter PRs not slowing down and my longer PRs getting faster though I may actually run my first ever track 5k this spring..:) For the past 5 years I've been fooling around with the marathon and as such my shorter races have been all over the board (think 15:42 to 16:42 for 5k). I think if I can run a 5k PR at 28 I'm ahead of the curve. So we'll see.

Training for a marathon your eggs are all in one basket and your shorter races suffer for a time. You train 6 months and hope for ONE good day. If it takes you 5 marathons to finally figure the race out it could take you 3-5 years before you actually run a good race. I think I finally figured the marathon out this past October in Chicago splitting a 1:16:45/1:18:20...the fastest second half I've run to date.

Alan

Because I'm in a sharing mood today...

Make your hard days hard and your easy days easy. Think in terms of both mileage and intensity.

100 miles is 14-15 miles a day, but that doesn't mean you should run 14-15 miles every day. Example: I ran 115 miles last week with days like this: 4, 13, 28, 15, 16, 18, 21, my three longest days were also my three fastest days.

If you feel tired your body is trying to tell you something. Take it easy. You'll have good days later in the week.

Alan

Always wondered about VO2 Max

1) Would a 3000m/5000m time trail be more effective than a VO2 max interval session?

2) Would it be better to improve VO2max in short amount of time and then start endurance training? Would you get more out of a few high mileage weeks?

A runners true VO2max or VO2peak is attained through a test in which the subject runs through incremental stages that progress VO2 and CO2 levels in the blood up to a peak or level off. A VO2max test usually takes 8-12 minutes and ends when you cannot run anymore, usually due to volitional fatigue in the legs (they'll tend to feel weak and lose their ability to produce power) causing you to slow down considerably. That also allows CO2 levels to decrease, which are the molecules our bodies are monitoring. But VO2 levels will drop with them.

As for how fast we should run to improve VO2 at any given level/pace of racing. Jack Daniel's advices runners to train only at the minimal pace you need to obtain the benefits you want. That means if 80% of VO2max/HRR is the minimum you need to bump your VO2max up from 62-68 ml/kg/min over a season, than you probably don't need to run at 90-100% for intervals. You will have more to put into mileage and other types of running workouts, recover faster, and be able to do VO2 workouts more often/consistent.

Happy Running!

I am sure the the OP appreciates your response 7 years late.

luv2run wrote:

I am sure the the OP appreciates your response 7 years late.

I'm sure your parents repent every day for having produced you.

I smell a 22 minute 5k-runner.

VO2 Max is maximized through mileage at 70 miles per week. Additional gains in running economy and metabolic efficiency are obtained beyond the 70 mile mark. The last two components are extremely important, as velocity at VO2 Max is a more reliable measure that accounts for all variables including energy reserve and expenditure.

VO2 Max is the pace you can sustain for 7:30 of running. Therefore, I would recommend running 1.5 miles to obtain an accurate measurement, as well as a reliable indicator of your abilities at the mile to 5k distances. Don't overly concern yourself with one measure of ability, as every pace is interrelated where a consuming focus on one pace will not yield optimal performances.