19:38 5K to 16:30 5K: One year only

Screw you, stupid piece of crap.

I ran 19:38 in mid June for the 5000m. That is terrible I know. My goal is to run sub-16:30 in one year. I've ran 17:30 about two years ago off of 45 miles/week and lots of intervals. The last few months have been in the 30's for miles, and I'm ready for a buildup throughout the fall,winter, and spring to hopefully peak early spring. Most of my training in two years ago was too fast. I would do all of my interval sessions as though I was a 16:40 runner, and did my easy runs at 7 min or faster. Plain and simple, I was going hard too often. I'm ready for a buildup of miles, moderate pace, etc.

any suggestions.

For now, run an hour per day, every single day, no matter what. Don't even think about the pace. Don't work out. No joke.

Talk to you in a few months -- you'll probably be halfway to your goal by then.

Here is my training last 3 weeks:

Week 1: 35 miles/6 runs/ all 8 min pace or slightly slower

Week 2: 39 miles/7 runs/ 1 fartlek of 4x 5 min on, 2 min off (6:40/mi pace) & 1 failed tempo run 2 miles at 7 min pace, then got tired and just ran easy, all other runs easy

Week 3: 39 miles/6 runs/1 farlek 3,5,3,5,3 on, 2 min off (6:40 pace) & 4 mile steady state: 6:45 pace, all other runs easy

**I guess my thing is getting a plan.

I have a training partner right now that has trained and raced about like you. He trained very consistently last year (30mpw) and managed 18:45. Until this summer he had never broken 18:30. His PR is now 17:42. He has been running about 45 mpw and run many interval workouts and tempo / threshold runs. About as many as a Jack Daniels program permits.

I feel that 17:30-16:30 is a HUGE jump (5:40 per to 5:20 per), unless you are either VERY fast for say 800 meters (2:00), or just plain old untapped and untrained.

My buddy realizes that even sub 17:30 is going to be tough based on his 5:15 mile PR. He just isn't all that quick.

Take it for what it's worth, but if you run 100 miles a week and still can't break 17, just be happy with what you have.

Yeah I realize that is a big jump as well. I'm not TOO stupid about training, and I'm very consistent when I want to be. I'm just thinking of progressing to the 80 mile/week range in one year or so, and seeing if that provides the results. I've ran a handful of 50+ mile weeks, but that was 2 years ago. I regret not going all out and moving up the mileage, and I'm still young enough (25) to give it a go.

You are on the right track. Work on building a base and then destroy yourself in the intervals later.

You can safely increase mileage about 3-4 miles per week (nice and easy)--like 8:00-8:30 for your pace.

50 miles end of August

62 miles end of Sept.

74 miles end of October

80 miles end of December

hold for January & some of February

pull back to 65 miles-70 miles a week for some longer interval work --February some of March

55-60 miles for some of March and April: speed work, then race taper (competitive season).

End of April, Early May you could pop off sub 17 GUARANTEE!!! Sub 16:30 would be a definite possiblity. Other things to think about, if you are really serious: Drop your weight a few pounds if you feel you are overweight any. Get sleep, be consistent with your training, don't be skipping here and there.

With consistent training and determination, you can and will run 16:30 for the 5K. Go get it!

15:59 wrote:

I feel that 17:30-16:30 is a HUGE jump (5:40 per to 5:20 per), unless you are either VERY fast for say 800 meters (2:00), or just plain old untapped and untrained.

Not true.

If someone has been pounding out 100 mile weeks for 10 years with a 17:30 PR and is expecting 16:30, perhaps you're correct.

But 17:30 to 16:30 carries no special difficulty any more so than 16:30 to 15:45 or 21:00 to 19:30.

Improvement is ALWAYS possible, if only in lessening degrees as one gets faster.

There is always something a runner can add. Renato had Shaheen doing hill sprints jumping over hurdles uphill. That's innovative stuff. A 19:38 runner likely has many, many areas in which to improve.

First and foremost is probably mileage.

Concurrently, and very importantly, is basic speed. Speed is underestimated in the distance races. The best distance runners also have very good--by non-sprinter standards--200m times. If you lined up Bekele or Gebrselassie in a 200 with their long distance counterparts, they'd have a good crack at winning there as well.

One can always develop speed a bit more. Plyometrics, downhill sprinting, towing, lifting; there's always another 0.01 second there.

Small things make a difference.

This guy needs to up the mileage, steadily carve down his LT speed (run at 6:55 pace until that's comfortable, then 6:50, adapt to that, down to 6:45, 6:40, keep working until it's at 6:00 pace).

I've seen this stuff happen. High school kids show up in 9th grade at 25:00 for 5K and graduate with 15-18:00 times. It's hard work and consistency.

Thanks everyone for posting.

I agree building the base is key. I plan on doing a fartlek and mild steady state run during the buildup. What would a 80 mile week look like? Just Curious?

You'll need to run a race 5k/10k sometime in the late fall or so and base your training off of that time. When you get that time, go to mcmillanrunning.com for what your paces should be, or runnersworld.com or daniels formula the book.

Sunday:

20 miles Long

Monday:

6 miles easy

Tuesday:

12 miles (your fartlek of 3-5 min. on, some off)--wu/cd

Wednesday:

8 miles easy

Thursday:

14 miles med-long (moderate pace, little faster than easy)

Friday:

12 miles (try 2mi wu, 2 mi cu: 8 mile steady/tempo-controlled effort)

Saturday:

8 miles easy

=================

80 miles (work strides into Sunday, Tuesday, and Friday)

I'd shoot more for 60 miles. Otherwise Highway to Heaven will coach you to Highway to Stress Fracture. hahaha!

Honestly the proposed schedule from Highway to Heaven is pretty good.

I don't think it is a recipe for disaster or anything like that. If you worry about an extra 3-4 miles a week, then do only 2 miles a week extra, surely your body can adapt to that.

2 miles per week is 8 per month so:

end of aug: 50 mi

end of sept. 58 mi

oct. 66 mi

nov. 74 mi

dec. 80 mi

pretty much the same thing. 2 miles per week that is all!!!!

The fact still stands though:

This guy is running 30 or so miles per week now, and hasn't been doing 50 miles since 2 years ago.

Why should he start at 50 miles?

Build a 2 mile buildup to 50-60 miles, try and PR off that mileage rather than going to 80 miles. High mileage is good if you can handle it, but you are telling him to get injured basically.

So no rest weeks. Or cut back weeks.

At 2 miles per week, there is no need.

i ran 20:22 for a 5k last july. Just the other week i ran 16:42.

Last week's mileage:

week 4:

44 miles, 6 runs

1 fartlek @ 6:30 pace for 3 min on, 2 min off

==============================================

I have decided to go for the high mileage approach. I have read some books from Frank Shorter and Ron Daws, and of course Arthur Lydiard. I truly believe this is the way to go.

I'm not going to go crazy right away, but will take the slow, methodical approach. I'm going to build a base of 25 weeks. Starting with 35 miles, week #1, and going to 75 miles weeks 20-25. I will have a rest week every 5th week, where I will drop back the intensity and mileage.

The plan over the next 21 weeks is to focus on mileage and focus on cardiovascular strength. After the 25 weeks, I'm going to do a 4 week Hill training, followed by 5 weeks of sharpening/interval training. Then I'm going to race for about 5 weeks or so.

Below is a sample of my base building for 25 weeks:

1: 35 miles

2: 39 miles

3: 39 miles

4: 44 miles

5: 35 miles

6: 44 miles

7: 47 miles

8: 50 miles

9: 53 miles

10: 44 miles

11: 53 miles

12: 56 miles

13: 59 miles

14: 62 miles

15: 53 miles

16: 62 miles

17: 65 miles

18: 68 miles

19: 71 miles

20: 62 miles

21: 71 miles

22: 73 miles

23: 75 miles

24: 75 miles

25: 75 miles

Looks like you got a realistic plan. Good luck.

You say you read about those guys: Frank and Ron, etc.

Think about this:

You build up to 100 miles per week in 25 weeks. You still take your down week every 5th week. You do this by doing what the above mentioned did. RUN DOUBLES. I'm talking going for an easy 4 miler each morning, then doing you normal run in the afternoon.

4miles per day extra x 5-7 days a week = 20-28 extra miles

This is something you could implement right away. Your body may (and I stress may) be tired or you may not be. Your body will adapt rather quickly. 2 weeks tops. As you increase your miles (from your above post), you keep this extra 25 miles or so per week of morning runs, and voila, you have 100 mile week. Not a magic number or anything, but better than 75 miles. And you are doing this at a slow pace which is good. You should at least try this. What is the worst thing that could happen?

If you try this for this big buildup you're talking about, you might get your 16:30 5K. If you don't I guarantee you will be close. You may (again stressing may) run sub 16:00. It depends on how you adapt. If you've never ran the high mileage, you may be pleasantly surprised.