He does look like he could lose a few pounds, making his performances even more impressive. In this race, they get out way too fast, 56 for the quarter, and then I think I heard 1:54/2:54, so the splits for the leader were 56/58/60/60. Snell was back a few strides for the first half lap or so and then close. He was probably good for 3:52-low 3:53 on this day with more reasonable splits. With a fast track and light spikes, who knows? Maybe 3:50. Great to watch this.
I knew Peter from 1963 until his death. In the early days when he came to the US to run in the Modesto and Coliseum Relays, he stayed at my parents’ home. We played golf and tennis had an opportunity to do a 20 x 220 workout at Stanford’s Angell Field. We started out running a few 29s, 29s and 28s and cut them down gradually 25s. The last one was to be flat out. My HS times were 1:53 and 4:12 but I also managed to win the 220 County championship in 22.4 so I some endurance and a little speed. But on the 20th interval Peter just left me like I was in kindergarten. My interval time was 23 and he easily had 5 yards on me. With the tracks of today Peter could easily have run under 22 seconds. In my mind, if he was running currently, the 800m and 1500m world records would be his.
Real Old Guy wrote:
I knew Peter from 1963 until his death. In the early days when he came to the US to run in the Modesto and Coliseum Relays, he stayed at my parents’ home. We played golf and tennis had an opportunity to do a 20 x 220 workout at Stanford’s Angell Field. We started out running a few 29s, 29s and 28s and cut them down gradually 25s. The last one was to be flat out. My HS times were 1:53 and 4:12 but I also managed to win the 220 County championship in 22.4 so I some endurance and a little speed. But on the 20th interval Peter just left me like I was in kindergarten. My interval time was 23 and he easily had 5 yards on me. With the tracks of today Peter could easily have run under 22 seconds. In my mind, if he was running currently, the 800m and 1500m world records would be his.
Thanks. I can feel the power of the guy coming through your post. What year was this?
Rupp fan wrote:
It cracks me up that anyone believes snell was 5'10, 175 or whatever. All it takes is for these bogus numbers to pop up in 1 or 2 sources and they spread like wildfire. Khabib Nurmagomedov is 5'10, 175 or so. Compare their physiques and laugh.
Lol, you believe UFC measurements but not Snell's. Khabib is 1 or 2 mm taller than McGregor at most, and he is not 5ft10. Snell had more on his lower body than Khabib.
1963
malmo wrote:
The announcer is calling it just like a horse race!
Just like the gee-gees, it's being called for radio.
Real Old Guy wrote:
I knew Peter from 1963 until his death. In the early days when he came to the US to run in the Modesto and Coliseum Relays, he stayed at my parents’ home. We played golf and tennis had an opportunity to do a 20 x 220 workout at Stanford’s Angell Field. We started out running a few 29s, 29s and 28s and cut them down gradually 25s. The last one was to be flat out. My HS times were 1:53 and 4:12 but I also managed to win the 220 County championship in 22.4 so I some endurance and a little speed. But on the 20th interval Peter just left me like I was in kindergarten. My interval time was 23 and he easily had 5 yards on me. With the tracks of today Peter could easily have run under 22 seconds. In my mind, if he was running currently, the 800m and 1500m world records would be his.
Were you trackside at the Modesto and Compton meets when he beat Jim Beatty? There is a bit of footage on-line. Impressive victories.
Whoa, 1:53 and 4:12 were smoking times for high school in the late 50s! What were the national records? About 1:52/4:10 maybe? I seem to recall Snell himself running about 1:53 as a junior.
Did you ever break four?
And the reason why Jim Ryun is the American GOAT and the inspiration for Quenton Cassidy from "Once A Runner"...
OWL wrote:
And the reason why Jim Ryun is the American GOAT and the inspiration for Quenton Cassidy from "Once A Runner"...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E-R97LShwA
A good win by Ryun but it wasn't Snell at his peak. He was on his retirement tour and he had several losses to runners he had formerly dominated.
Real Old Guy wrote:
1963
Me: "Whoa, 1:53 and 4:12 were smoking times for high school in the late 50s! What were the national records? About 1:52/4:10 maybe? I seem to recall Snell himself running about 1:53 as a junior.
Did you ever break four?"
So I checked, and Archie San Romani Jr. took the HS record from 4:13 to 4:10 in 1959, so you must have been right at the top of prep milers at the time.
Real Old Guy, I'm wondering if you could be Robin Ruble. My dad took me to the all-comers meet at Angell Field in 1961 that featured Snell, Halberg and Baillie en route to the Empire Games; I was seven. After his race Halberg was chatting with some people and took a step back, accidentally stepping on my foot. "Oh, excuse me lad," he said, and I thought that I didn't ever want to take that shoe off again.
And you think Ryun was at his peak???
Armstronglivs wrote:
OWL wrote:
And the reason why Jim Ryun is the American GOAT and the inspiration for Quenton Cassidy from "Once A Runner"...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E-R97LShwAA good win by Ryun but it wasn't Snell at his peak. He was on his retirement tour and he had several losses to runners he had formerly dominated.
OWL wrote:
And you think Ryun was at his peak???
Armstronglivs wrote:
A good win by Ryun but it wasn't Snell at his peak. He was on his retirement tour and he had several losses to runners he had formerly dominated.
I'll just call it a "changing of the guard" and leave it at that.
Too bad we didn't get Snell v. Elliott at their prime. That might have been the best matchup in history, at least for clean athletes.
I won't leave it at that. The OP started this thread with Snell WR of 3:54.1 in 1964. Now in 1965, he runs 3:55 and loses to a high school kid and you say it's his retirement tour. That's not what Peter says in his documentary.
YMMV wrote:
OWL wrote:
And you think Ryun was at his peak???
I'll just call it a "changing of the guard" and leave it at that.
Too bad we didn't get Snell v. Elliott at their prime. That might have been the best matchup in history, at least for clean athletes.
OWL wrote:
I won't leave it at that. The OP started this thread with Snell WR of 3:54.1 in 1964. Now in 1965, he runs 3:55 and loses to a high school kid and you say it's his retirement tour. That's not what Peter says in his documentary.
YMMV wrote:
I'll just call it a "changing of the guard" and leave it at that.
Too bad we didn't get Snell v. Elliott at their prime. That might have been the best matchup in history, at least for clean athletes.
It was his last tour before his retirement in July '65. During the tour he lost to Odlozil and Crothers - whom he had both beaten easily in the Olympic finals (as well as beating Odlozil in Auckland shortly after) and lost to Ryun and Grelle (whom he easily beat along with America's best milers in '63) and finished last in a mile in Vancouver. It wasn't surprising that he called it a day after that tour. I said previously it was a good win for Ryun but it wasn't Snell at his best, as he had been at Tokyo the year before, or when he set his records in '62. In the same way I don't see Ryun was at his best when he lost to Keino in '68 (or Liquori in '71).
YMMV wrote:
I'll just call it a "changing of the guard" and leave it at that.
Too bad we didn't get Snell v. Elliott at their prime. That might have been the best matchup in history, at least for clean athletes.
It was definitely one of the all time greatest 'passing of the torch' moments in athletics history.
We could also have had Herb Elliott vs Snell and Ryun. Snell was less than a year older than Elliott. Both would still only have been 30/29 at the Mexico Games. Imagine those three running against each other regularly between 64 and 68 if they had a lucrative European circuit back then?
Coevett wrote:
YMMV wrote:
I'll just call it a "changing of the guard" and leave it at that.
Too bad we didn't get Snell v. Elliott at their prime. That might have been the best matchup in history, at least for clean athletes.
It was definitely one of the all time greatest 'passing of the torch' moments in athletics history.
We could also have had Herb Elliott vs Snell and Ryun. Snell was less than a year older than Elliott. Both would still only have been 30/29 at the Mexico Games. Imagine those three running against each other regularly between 64 and 68 if they had a lucrative European circuit back then?
I think the true "passing of the torch" moment occurred in 1966, when Ryun broke Snell's record for the half and then the mile, showing that he truly had arrived at the top of his sport. In 1965 they were passing each other in opposite directions - Ryun on his way up and Snell on the way down. Odlozil, Crothers, Grelle and a dozen Vancouver milers beat Snell on the same tour that Ryun did, but we wouldn't suggest Snell was passing the torch to any of them.
The great confrontations that never occurred, because of the different timings of their careers, would have been the '62/64 Snell meeting the '58/60 Elliot, and Snell at his peak meeting the '66/67 Ryun. All of them seemingly invincible in their prime years.
I have always been a great Ryun fan and wished his best could have continued well past 66/67. Mono in '68 and then the altitude at Mexico deprived him of what should have been a fulfillment of his extraordinary talent. I also think that if he had gone back back in time, so to speak, he would have extended Snell way beyond the performances the Kiwi achieved in that earlier era. Elliot, Snell and Ryun - a blanket finish over a mile.