Nick Thompson: 7,000+ Words on Life and How To Run A 2:29 Marathon at Age 44

Hi Nicholas, I really enjoyed this piece. After years of aimless running I recently started training more "seriously" (i.e. somewhat structured with 40+ miles/week) in my late 30s. My long-term goal is a sub-3 marathon...though my best race so far is a 1:34 half so I know I'm a ways off. I know I lack talent but stories like this give me faith that with consistent effort I can still continue to make significant improvement.

A couple questions - and thank you for taking the time to post here:

- If you hadn't received that fortuitous call from Nike a couple years ago, would you still have sought out more formal coaching?

- Any interest in sharing your old Google Docs? :)

Thank you!

On that phone call, honestly I probably wouldn't have. I would have just continued my self-coached routine, with the occasional workout with my club team. (Then the Central Park Track Club.)

On the Google Docs, there's a lot of personal notation in there now that I'd have to edit out. But all the workouts are posted on Strava. The last build started around 7/30 and went through Chicago.

https://www.strava.com/athletes/3985218

Have you ever considered looking into having your next training program developed for you 100% by artificial intelligence rather than having a human for a coach? Not sure when the next marathon would be, but would be interesting if AI could design a better running program for you (or someone else).

I should say that I don't think we are there, at least I haven't seen anything that specific. I know there are a lot of running apps but they are all pretty unsophisticated, most seem to be based on entering one or two race results. But, maybe that all that is required? How does your coach create your program? What variables does he take into account? I know there are people doing research into this, but would make an interesting article. Human vs. AI - who can create the better training plan.

Why is this a big deal? Michael Wardian ran 2:29 marathons or better like every other weekend when he was 44.

northvanrnr wrote:

Have you ever considered looking into having your next training program developed for you 100% by artificial intelligence rather than having a human for a coach? Not sure when the next marathon would be, but would be interesting if AI could design a better running program for you (or someone else).

I should say that I don't think we are there, at least I haven't seen anything that specific. I know there are a lot of running apps but they are all pretty unsophisticated, most seem to be based on entering one or two race results. But, maybe that all that is required? How does your coach create your program? What variables does he take into account? I know there are people doing research into this, but would make an interesting article. Human vs. AI - who can create the better training plan.

Right now I think most of the running apps basically just use the Daniels (or similiar plans) and tweak things to your pace. I am unaware of any that would do things like monitor HR at paces to see when you are tired and need more rest or try to figure out if you need to do more Vo2Max or Tempo paced work. I am not even sure if we really know enough about training to get there.

For most rec runners, marathon training is going to be all about time on your feet. When your running 30-40mpw, pretty much nothing beats getting up to 60. If. you are better off doing 2 tempo runs of 30 mins each or 1 tempo and 1 session of 10k paced intervals is just noise compared to that. Now the OP is getting fast enough (call it sub 6:30 or so pace) where details start to matter a lot more.

northvanrnr wrote:

Have you ever considered looking into having your next training program developed for you 100% by artificial intelligence rather than having a human for a coach? Not sure when the next marathon would be, but would be interesting if AI could design a better running program for you (or someone else).

I would 100% try this---both because I would have some confidence it could work and because I would love the experiment. Going to talk with our AI reporters now ...

UltraDude wrote:

Why is this a big deal? Michael Wardian ran 2:29 marathons or better like every other weekend when he was 44.

Michael Wardian is 1000X better than i am. And, fun fact: I'm pretty sure he won the marathon I write about when I was so excited to break three hours 15 years ago. But my hope is that the main interest in the story isn't the time, but more my analysis of how running connected four generations of my family, and what I learned about my own limits.

UltraDude wrote:

Why is this a big deal? Michael Wardian ran 2:29 marathons or better like every other weekend when he was 44.

Maybe because Nicholas is the editor in chief of Wired and a profesional writer

ready made wrote:

UltraDude wrote:

Why is this a big deal? Michael Wardian ran 2:29 marathons or better like every other weekend when he was 44.

Maybe because Nicholas is the editor in chief of Wired and a profesional writer

Why did David Foster Wallace get to write about tennis, he’s no Roger Federer!!!

ready made wrote:

UltraDude wrote:

Why is this a big deal? Michael Wardian ran 2:29 marathons or better like every other weekend when he was 44.

Maybe because Nicholas is the editor in chief of Wired and a profesional writer

Well, no, the significance of the story isn't dependent on the author's job title. You can also argue all you want about if running sub 2:30 at 44 is a "big deal", but that is also just an inability to see the forest through the trees. You guys should maybe just read it? While there are a lot of different takeaways, as a runner it is interesting (perhaps inspirational even) to see an experienced runner who had been training and running marathons through his 30's in "respectable times", but seeming to plateau, train with dedication and hit a PB at 44. A lot of personal questions arise from that for runners, of any age, which they can ask themselves about their training and their own potential. Again, maybe give it a read.

He’s no Gary O’Hanlon

nicholasxthompson wrote:

one year of utterly lackluster running under Lananna at Stanford.)

hah that's funny. I also had one year of lackluster running...under Lananna at Dartmouth.

Nice article. It seems like for a long time, though, he was not training properly. Doing long/short intervals is a basic training component. He doesn't mention the training he did to get to 2:40. I imagine he just did mileage with some long runs, so props to him for running 2:40 off that. If he had been training the last ten years like he is now, he'd probably be looking at sub 2:20.

Thank you for the read.

Loved your article! It inspires me to chase down some ambitious goals even though I didn't run seriously until after college! (I'm 27 now)

UltraDude wrote:

Why is this a big deal? Michael Wardian ran 2:29 marathons or better like every other weekend when he was 44.

Hi Mike! Not getting enough attention today?!?

This is a great read, I can identify with so much of it as someone approaching their late 30's and coming to grips with (and questioning) the realities of aging and running. Two questions I have after reading:

1: What has your relationship with your mother been like (if you don't mind the question)? I don't believe she's mentioned much in the article.

2: Have you dealt with any running injuries/ailments in recent years? Just wondering if you've had to manage any common running problems (i.e. IT band syndrome) as you've increased your focus.

No worries if you don't get to these, appreciate you sharing your story!

Nicholas - Thanks for the previous response and heads up about your Strava.

In addition to your mother, I am curious to hear more about your relationship with your grandfather. He's mentioned a couple times in not so flattering terms...is that basically what he was, or did you have a decent relationship with him while he was alive?

Thank you for both these past two questions. My relationship with my mother is absolutely wonderful, but it seemed simpler for the essay to make it almost entirely about my father. So I just included that once sentence. (And I've written a whole book about that side of my family, though in a political, not personal, context:

https://www.nickthompson.com/the-hawk-and-the-dove/

)

On nagging injuries, I did have a tough ITB issue in my late 20s and early 30s. But I haven't really dealt with anything since. I've been extremely fortunate, and clearly the lack of injuries was one reason the last few builds and races went smoothly.