this is it wrote:
Wine & Pikachu wrote:
I find this theory very interesting. I have no medical background whatsoever, but I
I stopped reading right there.
You could have saved yourself further time by not subsequently posting.
this is it wrote:
Wine & Pikachu wrote:
I find this theory very interesting. I have no medical background whatsoever, but I
I stopped reading right there.
You could have saved yourself further time by not subsequently posting.
Purell Frank wrote:
marshal wrote:
Problem with this paper is that it is only a computer simulated molecular docking. It's highly unreliable and not peer-reviewed. Strongest argument against this hypothesis is that if it were true we would not see rapid improvement in those who are treated successfully with antivirals like Remdesivir as the damaged red blood cells would take weeks to rebuild as RBC life time is around 120 days. Also we would see huge increase in erythropoietin but as far as I know that is not the case.
https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID-19_Disease_ORF8_and_Surface_Glycoprotein_Inhibit_Heme_Metabolism_by_Binding_to_Porphyrin/11938173I think doctors are figuring out this is a blood disease and not a respiratory one. Oh, and hydroxychloroquine works.......
If this paper is right and there is something to the Porphyrin levels, then maybe this is a key to the wide differences in death rates.
Old people are the only ones who like drugs more than (insert preferred doper here).
Proton Pump inhibitors are prescribed to over 40% of elderly Italians. Previously Tagamet HB was used before PPIs were introduced. They target different mechanisms, so PPIs might not also treat Porphyria, but both greatly increase the risk of pneumonia. PPIs nearly double the chances of pneumonia.
Maybe other countries with lower deaths rates don't use these as much.
[/quote]
Purell Frank wrote:
Proton Pump inhibitors are prescribed to over 40% of elderly Italians. Previously Tagamet HB was used before PPIs were introduced. They target different mechanisms, so PPIs might not also treat Porphyria, but both greatly increase the risk of pneumonia. PPIs nearly double the chances of pneumonia.
[/quote]
Is there any research how prevalent PPIs are in a certain region of our country very popular with Cajun food which is being hit particularly hard by coronavirus?
Statements like the following make you think;
"Some patients who are showing no signs of breathing difficulties are registering blood-oxygen levels which would suggest they are already dead"
Then these patients are being sedated and/or rushed onto ventilators of some kind and 80% are not surviving this treatment route.
I am not a medical expert, but the patient is clearly not dead despite what the SATs machine is displaying. So the accuracy and significance of this evidence must be considered. Which other factors or mechanisms are being overlooked? As humans we have a tendency to assume that what we already know is the answer.
Maybe the medical community needs to think deeper about the pathology of the illness and the best treatment method.
No one who Ian breathing ok is being ‘rushed’ onto a ventilator despite what you might hear in the lay press.
Being intubated and put on a ventilator is a treatment of last resort, and also poses a significant risk to staff due to aerosol.
I have intubated several people w COVID...these patient were in respiratory distress, breathing 30-40 times a minute on 100% oxygen. It was necessary to save their life. Many of them are now extubated and recovering. Their survival is way higher than 20%. MOST patients don’t need to be intubated. We are now using high-flow oxygen (thereby exposing staff to aerosol) and nitric oxide to avoid intubation if possible
Medicine is an art , not a exact science. What works for one patient may not work for another.
If you’re not a medical expert, probably best to avoid speculation unless you have some first-hand experience.
An actual MD wrote:
I have intubated several people w COVID...these patient were in respiratory distress, breathing 30-40 times a minute on 100% oxygen.
What a stupid thing to do. You're purposely and ignorantly washing all the carbon dioxide out of their bodies by force with oxygen, so they are not able to exchange carbon dioxide with oxygen at the cellular levels.
THAT is why they are breathing at 30 to 40 times a minute, why their organs are failing, and why the death rate for people put on ventilators is over 83 percent, again way over estimating the death rate from an innocuous virus.
Who knows how other mistakes you've been making and misattributing to some other causes.
A Hungry, Violent Mob wrote:
Purell Frank wrote:
Proton Pump inhibitors are prescribed to over 40% of elderly Italians. Previously Tagamet HB was used before PPIs were introduced. They target different mechanisms, so PPIs might not also treat Porphyria, but both greatly increase the risk of pneumonia. PPIs nearly double the chances of pneumonia.
Is there any research how prevalent PPIs are in a certain region of our country very popular with Cajun food which is being hit particularly hard by coronavirus?[/quote]
I don't know how you would get that data. I would think that it would also be possible to figure out how it differs by county too. I assume that the treatments might vary widely by country.
It looks like they have started looking into ACE2 inhibitors being linked to severe cases. These are probably prescribed differently by country.
The statistics all point to elderly patients with preexisting conditions being affected the most. These populations take multiple drugs so it doesn't seem far fetched to imagine some drugs make it much worse.
This is just the first link I came up with. Elsewhere I saw some drug companies say ACE inhibitors protect you.
Most elderly people are on a cocktail of drugs. If it weren't for some of the shocking deaths in Kirkland, Jamin might be free right now.
US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention regarding the Kirkland Nursing home observed: “The most common chronic underlying conditions among facility residents were hypertension (69.1%), cardiac disease (56.8%), renal disease (43.2%), diabetes (37.0%), obesity (33.3%), and pulmonary disease (32.1%)
Maybe it's all the prescription drugs people are taking that make them die when combined with Covid-19.
All I have to say is: f*** the moderation on this board.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6137759/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SmarterEveryDay/comments/fotwja/how_trolls_on_reddit_try_to_manipulate_you/
Having been called a Russian bot a hundred times by left-wing nitwits while I'm comfortably living in Texas with a masters degree making $250k/yr with an 11/10 wife.... The term Russian bot has lost all meaning to me and probably everyone else you disagree with online.
You don’t understand basic respiratory physiology. The carbon dioxide blood levels (paCO2) in many cases are actually high because their lungs don’t work. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Don’t worry, if you show up breathing 40 times a minute breathing 100% oxygen, you can refuse intubation and pass away if you want.
The mortality rate on a vent in the US is nowhere near 80%. I’ve extubated several patients who were on a vent who are now doing well.
An actual MD wrote:
The carbon dioxide blood levels (paCO2) in many cases are actually high because their lungs don’t work.
Their organs shut down trying to build up carbon dioxide at the cellular level because YOU keep removing it!
You should not be putting patients on ventilators, because you don't understand what you're doing.
Don’t worry, if you show up breathing 40 times a minute breathing 100% oxygen, you can refuse intubation and pass away if you want.
Please explain how a patient would be breathing 100% oxygen BEFORE you hook them up.
Since you think ventilators are safe, hook yourself up for the next few nights at the same settings that you put your patients on and have someone tie you down to the bed so you can't remove it. Then when you pass away because you want to pass away anyway, your patients will finally be safe from you and recover!
Problem solved.
just wtf... interesting...except literally nothing to do with this thread.
Looks like some people on this thread are proven right.
Can we get a refund on all those ventilators Ford and GM are making for us?
We can always cut off the intubators with a rusty knife and duct tape CPAP masks to the hoses.
A nice update on this issue. (Link below, written by doctor actually treating covid patients).
Summary: COVID-19 causes silent hypoxia (lung can't take in oxygen, but can still get rid of CO2, so you don't get breathless). You can measure this in advance of pulse oxymeter (a device that has been suggested for runners in high altitude training or to diagnose problems with iron), which means you can treat early before having to go to ventilation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/opinion/coronavirus-testing-pneumonia.html
oxymotron wrote:
A nice update on this issue. (Link below, written by doctor actually treating covid patients).
Summary: COVID-19 causes silent hypoxia (lung can't take in oxygen, but can still get rid of CO2, so you don't get breathless). You can measure this in advance of pulse oxymeter (a device that has been suggested for runners in high altitude training or to diagnose problems with iron), which means you can treat early before having to go to ventilation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/opinion/coronavirus-testing-pneumonia.html
Just spoke at length with a friend whose daughter is a hospital doctor in a large hospital on the East Coast. He had a long conversation with her as to what is happening where she works- she is working directly with patients.
1) So far exclusively elderly with pre-existing conditions;
2) They can't say for certain that most of what they are seeing is Covid and they are more interested in treatments;
3) The standard protocols they were using were not working so they switched to using a specific anti-inflammatory that they sue for cancer patients and have been having positive results with that;
4) Not overcrowded but still they don't feel they have proper protective gear and medical supplies- common problem there.
Certainly nothing conclusive but that is her story.