Steph Bruce has a target on her back: “ There’s an undeniable trend with the East African countries testing positive”

Yes. Yes. Ofcourse Watson. Buy international plane tickets to some dirt road city. Load up the film crew who have a dozen other projects to work on. Secure some empties. Place in trash can and film. Reminds me of Adam Schiff.

El Keniano wrote:

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Out-of-competition testing is improving in these countries — specifically Kenya. Ironically, Steph Bruce's evidence of the problem (Kenyans getting caught by the AIU) is also a little slice of evidence that it might be heading in the right direction.

And virtually no busts in Ethiopia. No reason to lump them with Kenya’s issues as they get solved. I would encourage Americans and Europeans looking to train in East Africa to go there. They’re very hospitable.

Same as Kenya before the testers went in

Remember the time when there was only Matthew Kisorio to point the finger at

You are right about A. Kiptum, but R. Kipruto began to run fast so young that he had to appear from nowhere. You cannot use his progression to determine whether he is doping or not. As for E. Korir, he lives in the US most of the time, so there are enough opportunities to test him according to US standards.

Your generalization is indeed racist (maybe because the thread already is). If you want to avoid this pitfall you don't even realize, please notice that there are plenty of athletes emerging from nowhere who don't come from Kenya and stop calling out Kenyans only. (Yes, they run 2:06-2:11 for the marathon and not 2:03-2:05, but still.)

Best would be to list only convicted dopers and avoid generalization, but if you want to be visionary and predict who's next, don't name more than one unless at least one is not black. Then you won't write racist posts anymore (note I don't say you are fundamentally racist because I really don't know).

Thank you.

Yes, remember Icarus. He performed WORSE while on EPO. It's more complicated than "magic" drugs for endurance.

So Mathew Kisorio is credible and honest when confess he used doping BEFORE running 2:10 and the WORST personal performance in 10,000m on track, but continue to be an OUTLAW DOPER when now is able running under 2:05 after his ban ?

Really, the ability to look ALWAYS at something supporting your thesis, forgetting and not considering, everything is AGAINST your thesis, can't make you, and all the other posters with your same behavior, persons with high credibility.

It's clear you have a precise idea, that NEVER can change, also when there is some evidence.

Which evidences ?

1- There is doping in Kenya (true)

2- Some of the best athletes, including some Olympic Champion (Jemima Sumgong, Ruth Jebet who is Kenyan also if officially Bahreini, Asbel Kiprop) and some World Record Holder (Abraham Kiptum) used doping (EPO) (true)

3- Some of them was banned, but after his come back was able running faster than before (true, but considered an irrelevant detail)

4-If an athlete takes doping when is 30 years old, of course he started doping from the beginning of his /her career, and this can justify his/her previous results (not true, but "guilty for connection" according who already has this idea, in spite of a lot of controls showing the athlete clean at the time of his best performances)

5-If some of the best athletes (but not the best) is doped, ALL THE OTHER RUNNERS FASTER THAN HIM MUST BE DOPED (something ridiculous, because this thesis supposes that ALL the athletes must have the same level of talent and of training, and this is absolutely not true when we look at the world of elite athletes)

6-I KNOW, while you don't believe, that it's possible to be current WR holders with a full activity completely clean (training and competition). So, I have some more info than you and the researchers (who NEVER do research with the top elite subjects). You are free to believe or not, but this is a FACT, not an opinion. But, of course, a FACT can be used only when supports your idea…..

Talking about "PAIN AND SUFFERING" is not in my toolbox and vocabulary`s inhold to perform world class training. It`s more a matter of EXACT perfect individual paces and a smart mix of the factors that contributes to the result. Only enough volume what it takes to reach the goals and always perfect controlled level of effort. I`m with you that the runner have to be in touch with high intensity almost the whole year, but that it requires " a simple life at high altitude and high mileage in an ambience of mostly elite runners " I will never agree with you.

When it comes to your words about "The Kenyan way "(and Ethiopian) of starting from INTENSITY and EXTEND the distance runned, you forget ( or choose to ignore? ) the rather high number of darkness that gets overtrained and damaged .

As you say a big difference between European/ American and African runners is that the Africans have a pressure to succeed to get a significant better financial security.This difference is of course a crucial part of being tempted to dope.

Nonsense.

They are still getting busted from 2017. I picked 2017 because testing picked up around then. I'd wager that at least a couple more will get busted from that team in the next year or so.

Does Ruth Jabet prove that Kenyans are superior to Bahrainians? Americans buy Kenyans, just like Third World corrupt Arabic countries do, then let them do much of their training back home.

Does anyone at this stage believe that Mo Farah still 'proves' that East Africans are superior to native Brits? Steve Ovett's personal bests at age 20 from 200m to the half-marathon and including 5K, were substantially better than every one of Mo's pbs until the age of 25. But Mo had so much more talent that Steve Ovett, because of the pigment in his skin. Of course, L-Cartinine injections, Aden holding the stopwatch, and missed doorbells simply allowed that obvious superiority in talent to shine through.. eventually.

There are probably a dozen Steve Ovetts out there in British schools today, but nearly all play football these days, partly due to the myth of East African genetic superiority being rammed into them too.

Likely less than 0.1% of elite American athletes go into distance running. East Africa has a population similar to the USA, and 99.9% of their elite athletes go into distance running, with EPO on tap likely from puberty. If the USA is buying up some of the best talent in East Africa, how can you be so dumb to be surprised if the Kenyan imports like Chelimo kick the white boys butts?

Reality is that only a total genetic freak of European decent can compete with the East African runners, 1 in a 10,000 European runners have the genetics of 1 in 100 East Africans for long distance running. In terms of Europeans sprinting against West Africans it's maybe even more dramatic, you may get the occasional genetic freak like Lemaitre but there it's maybe 1 in 100,000 Europeans can compete with the genetics of 1 in 100 West Africans for sprinting.

Reality is Racist, most Europeans need to dope to compete with the Africans in running, just as the same would be in reverse in swimming... when you give East Africans the European American shoe technology/training/doping methods then there's no chance in hell at that elite level. Brutal truth.

Renato Canova wrote:

So Mathew Kisorio is credible and honest when confess he used doping BEFORE running 2:10 and the WORST personal performance in 10,000m on track, but continue to be an OUTLAW DOPER when now is able running under 2:05 after his ban ?

Yes...I'd say so. The Fancy Bears hacked WADA document from 2016 shows Kisorio as "Likely doping." Under the comments section there are a few notes one of which states "Test ESA/4 to 2 weeks before next comp." So, they're suspicious of ESA use based on the data they're seeing. Don't be fooled so easily - many dopers who served bans and decide to resume competition continue to dope with better anti-doping countermeasures the second time around.

As for this whole doping controversy, anyone who has broken a world record in the last 60 years has either achieved it through doping or mechanical doping or even more likely a combination of the two.

It is absurd to think that the top Kenyans dope more than the Top Europeans/Americans, they just aren't as good at avoiding the tests and don't have access to the latest designer drugs to go under the radar.. don't be so damn naive by buying this bullshit.

Seth DeMoor needs to read Canova's post and internalize it. He's making the same mistake most Americans do - extension. For example, the other day he ran 23 miles at 6:40/mi pace. Why? Because he's a brainwashed American obsessed with getting a certain distance in instead of focusing on intensity and building from there. He would be better served to run 15, 16, 17 miles at 5:40/mi pace than 23 miles at 6:40/mi pace. But he's obsessed with mileage and hitting his targets. He will be another low-2:20 American wondering why he can't get faster.

just sayin wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

And virtually no busts in Ethiopia. No reason to lump them with Kenya’s issues as they get solved. I would encourage Americans and Europeans looking to train in East Africa to go there. They’re very hospitable.

Same as Kenya before the testers went in

Remember the time when there was only Matthew Kisorio to point the finger at

Be that as it may, I insist they go, still.

Rojo, this post WAS racist. Let me explain.

Stephanie Bruce used Ruth Jebet to imply that there are a lot of positive tests coming out of Kenya and Ethiopia. Ruth does not run for either country. She made this assumption by looking at the color of Ruth's skin. Being born in Kenya doesn't matter in this instance. She competes for another country entirely.

Additionally, Bruce didn't imply that she was speaking specifically to white runners. Her post implicated african born runners like Alphiline, Paul Chelimo and Sally--and cast suspicion on them for the crime of going home to visit her family. Her post had far reaching implications. She needs to do better.

STOP!

We all know why this blew up.

What Bruce said is not racist. She did not base it off color of skin. You are reaching for something. People who go off radar and can’t be found in Kenya to “train” are probably doping. There was just an article about Kenyan athletes evading authorities through his window.

Stanley Kebenei went off and created this thread, or they had others do it for them. They took offense because they have gone to kenya and doped. I bet if they keep testing him and have someone follow him to Kenya. He will never run under 8:10 again.

I’ll bet you this guy will need to go train in Kenya again before the track trials.

You want to visit family? Look how many pro Americans go home during serious training blocks? You can use that lie if you want. I know other Kenyans who haven’t been home in almost 10 years and they don’t train anymore.

I don't follow Aliphine closely, but doesn't she mostly train in AZ with Bruce? And before she joined NAZ, Colorado?

Anyway, Steph is an accomplished runner, but also comes across as bitter. Can't blame her but isn't not like being a Twitter warrior about will make the difference. I know keeping her name in the news is part of her career. Just is a bit exhausting to witness.

And then I'm sure she'll post on social media about the LetsRun haters, the only people who really know who she is.

I personally don't care about the Americans who represent the U.S. who are originally from elsewhere. People are going to dope, regardless where they train. You think people aren't doping in OR or AZ? Hahahahah, silly people.

How much would you be willing to pay for EPO? I could get some tomorrow. Easily.

Kenyan born American wrote:

Paul Chelimo tried to explain to her that many of us return to see family but she never backed off.

Why is this being dismissed or not even talked about? That's reason enough on its own. Do you people hate your families?

zzzz wrote:

Kenyan born American wrote:

Paul Chelimo tried to explain to her that many of us return to see family but she never backed off.

Why is this being dismissed or not even talked about? That's reason enough on its own. Do you people hate your families?

Letsrun is my family, so, yes.