Whats the vaporfly equivalent to trail shoes?

Maybe something like the salomon sense pro? Lightweight (for a trail show) and responsive.

I like the inov-8 range for trail but they are better suited to really soft/muddy conditions. It depends on the type of ground you're mostly going to be running on.

Springs

There really isn't an equivalent. The VF magic is partly due to the stack. Stack is bad in a trail shoe because it makes the shoe unstable. Once your foot gets closer to the ground, there is only so much rebound that the small amount of foam can provide.

In general, agility, stability, weight, and grip are the factors that are most favorable in a trail shoe. I like the Salomon shoes a lot, but Ive never tried a trail shoe that has the dramatic improvement that the VF does.

Vapor Trails wrote:

Stack is bad in a trail shoe because it makes the shoe unstable.

Really? Hoka kinda invented the whole stack thing just for their trail shoes.

Not to mention the new Hoka One One Tennine for downhill runing.

The trail shoes I've had in the past

- NB 875? This was a pretty magical shoe - light and quick (circa 2008?) they stopped making it

- Nike Terra Kiger 3 - not bad and could run on roads a bit

- Salomon Speedcross 4 GTX - thing can only be worn on extremely heavy mud or snow or the lugs feel terrible. Also quite heavy.

So the stack height doesn't have to be crazy, but should be light and cushy enough that it's an enjoyable on all surface (I generally run to the trail), but when I get there, be good for rocks/wet rocks, 10-40% slope changes with uneven random surfaces etc hidden by long grass, would ideally be under 10oz.

So, I stop in the closest running store just to look around and see new stuff as well as upcoming race poster, etc. Incidentally, they had 4% and Next % both right on the wall - and this is in a sparsely populated rural area - so apparently they are not rare or hard to find. Anyway, I ignored those and am checking out trail shoes. Solomon had 3 (I think) different training shoes each of which had a very stiff (like any carbon road shoe) racing analog. Now, these are not super thick and Hoka-like, so I don't claim they beat Nike to their idea, but I don't believe these are very new and might predate the 4%. Anyway, the guy working there was obviously way into the trail thing, like everyone there perhaps, and didn't mention the swoosh or consider these to be ripoff of the much-publicized road shoes. He claimed that weight and stiffness are the primary criteria for trail racing shoes. I guess trail people and manufacturers think that and maybe did prior to Nike, so who started the craze?

dude ran the Hong Kong 100k in Next%s

seeing ppl bust out the vaporflys on mellower trail races more and more

I guess you ruin them with the race, but these dudes are thinking it's worth it

I think it was Geoff Burns who told me that some ultra runers in Japan are now buying Vaporflys and modifying them to use in trail ultras. Not sure exactly what they are doing but I think they are like maybe wrapping them like you wrap a shoe with spikes for snow gripping.

https://www.zoro.com/winter-walking-ice-cleat-ball-heel-stud-xl-jd350-xl/i/G6389008/feature-product?gclid=CjwKCAiA44LzBRB-EiwA-jJipE6MTA9Ql7DEa-zsOl9Fv3gUosBkIfhkc17ZpbeOVvgPnWmt_NGguxoC0CkQAvD_BwE

That's an interesting concept but wouldn't be so good on rocky terrain.

Isn't their S/Lab sense 7/8 their racing shoe? Which I should probably check it out anyways as I'm a pretty light runner (under 140).

Rockplates have been around forever and are a stiff plate in a shoe. Gasp!!!!

They didn't kill the founder of this sites parents apparently so they aren't blamed for everything wrong in the world but interesting on this thread we talk about stack height no plates. Hokas seem to have started as high stack trail shoes popular in the trail running community no?