I straight up just do not understand how guys can run workouts like this and not run a faster marathon. Even as a 2:55 guy, I almost never run more than a half marathon @ MP during training, and that's usually a massive effort. Just thinking about a 20+ miler @ MP +10 seconds sounds impossible during a training week.
The guy has been running marathons for 18 months and hasn't even tried to chase a fast time. At CIM he wanted to learn how to race a marathon because that's what's needed in Atlanta. It won't be a time trial but a race.
No one whose fastest marathon is from CIM will sniff the Olympic team. CIM is a minor league marathon and he only ran 2:13. We have a dozen or more guys who have run faster and competed better on legit courses.
Looks like this guy already ran his race. Too bad it was during a training week.
finallyransub17 wrote:
I straight up just do not understand how guys can run workouts like this and not run a faster marathon.
27 mile long run close to race pace?
Too long and too hard, that's why he will feel flat when race day comes.
He does this kind of run just about every weekend...that’s the whole reason people had mentioned him here. He hasn’t left his race in Clovis. Heck, he will probably do another long run next weekend.
Lol at all of you. Guy was just racing to win at CIM and merely lost it by a few seconds. My guess is he is in sub 2:10 shape and will be in contention for a spot on the team. Top 5 for sure. You won’t know what kind of shape his in till he actually tries to go for a fast time so don’t critique the training just yet.
26.2savage wrote:
The guy has been running marathons for 18 months and hasn't even tried to chase a fast time. At CIM he wanted to learn how to race a marathon because that's what's needed in Atlanta. It won't be a time trial but a race.
A laughable comment. He ran the same pace for a marathon solo on hilly course vs the CIM course and he kept running. Yet on race day he was not able to win. And was splitting mostly high 4:50s at the end. If you can run this workout you should be able to close much faster than that.
Did he do this workout in trainers?
reed wrote:
everybody is writing him off because he only ran 2:13 at CIM, but he only lost that race by a few seconds over a 2:09 guy. It was a tactical race and they ran a pretty quick last 5k, though not insanely fast.
He's only been doing marathons for a year or two, I believe he debuted in the Modesto marathon with a 2:16/2:17 after taking some time off of competitive running. He's run a bunch of 2:15-2:18s at random marathons recently including setting the indoor world record.
Seems like his biggest talent is quick recovery from hard efforts. I saw him the morning after he got 2nd at CIM in 2:13 at 8am in the hotel lobby, and he was going for a shakeout. He told me that it makes him feel better after a couple really slow miles of jogging. Well, I checked his strava later and saw that he ran about a 7:15 first mile and then was running like 5:30 pace by the end of his 7mi run and averaged about 6:05s. Somebody can go double check that if they want, but I'm not exaggerating.
No you were not exaggerating. 9 miles averaging 6:07 pace with last 2 miles in 5:08 and 5:11
https://www.strava.com/activities/2922084807hshs wrote:
Lol at all of you. Guy was just racing to win at CIM and merely lost it by a few seconds. My guess is he is in sub 2:10 shape and will be in contention for a spot on the team. Top 5 for sure. You won’t know what kind of shape his in till he actually tries to go for a fast time so don’t critique the training just yet.
Besides a few fast long runs what has he done to show that he could finish top 5 at the Olympic Trials Marathon. What major race has he ever finished top 5 at? People always get excited about guys who run well at CIM and then we never hear from them again. Look at the past two winners who won in more competitive editions: Tim Ritchie and Brogan Austin. Ritchie ran 2:11:56 at CIM and has only managed 2:15 on a legit course. Austin ran 2:12:38 and his best performance since was a 1:01:52 half marathon where he lost to 12 other Americans. CIM is a minor league race on an aided course that inflates people's times.
finallyransub17 wrote:
I straight up just do not understand how guys can run workouts like this and not run a faster marathon. Even as a 2:55 guy, I almost never run more than a half marathon @ MP during training, and that's usually a massive effort. Just thinking about a 20+ miler @ MP +10 seconds sounds impossible during a training week.
Some people recover very fast from hard workouts and sometimes road course are deceptive (i.e. downhill, big wind,. mismeasured) . What is more questionable is what is the training benefits of running 27 miles at MP+5-10. Seen way to many guys run 20 miles like this and then be unable to hit that pace on race day.
Sesamoiditis wrote:
hshs wrote:
Lol at all of you. Guy was just racing to win at CIM and merely lost it by a few seconds. My guess is he is in sub 2:10 shape and will be in contention for a spot on the team. Top 5 for sure. You won’t know what kind of shape his in till he actually tries to go for a fast time so don’t critique the training just yet.
Besides a few fast long runs what has he done to show that he could finish top 5 at the Olympic Trials Marathon. What major race has he ever finished top 5 at? People always get excited about guys who run well at CIM and then we never hear from them again. Look at the past two winners who won in more competitive editions: Tim Ritchie and Brogan Austin. Ritchie ran 2:11:56 at CIM and has only managed 2:15 on a legit course. Austin ran 2:12:38 and his best performance since was a 1:01:52 half marathon where he lost to 12 other Americans. CIM is a minor league race on an aided course that inflates people's times.
Well he did beat the previous Trial's 8th place finisher at CIM. Not that I think CJ will be top 5, but I think he's got a good shot at top 10.
2:15 at the Trials traditionally gets you Top 10
You people act like a 2 hour run is some epic feat that requires months to recover from.
Walmsley=Albertson=Rupp>Fauble-Ward-Korir-Abdi-Ritz
finallyransub17 wrote:
I straight up just do not understand how guys can run workouts like this and not run a faster marathon. Even as a 2:55 guy, I almost never run more than a half marathon @ MP during training, and that's usually a massive effort. Just thinking about a 20+ miler @ MP +10 seconds sounds impossible during a training week.
Because they leave everything in training and on race day have nothing else left. They are the running equivalent of buying high and selling low in investments.
You heard it here first wrote:
You people act like a 2 hour run is some epic feat that requires months to recover from.
Walmsley=Albertson=Rupp>Fauble-Ward-Korir-Abdi-Ritz
First I'll say it's a joke to put Walmsley on the side of Rupp, Albertson is TBD, and to have Korir on the side of everyone else. Korir is just about a lock, he has been consistently great for so long, his bad race is a 28 flat 10k, which would beat just about everyone else in the race. His only marathon was a 2:07 a month after the world track championships. He is the only guy other than Rupp who has run sub 60 in a half, no one else has been even close in the past few years.
Now back to this thread's topic, ya a 2 hour run is not anything crazy, especially for someone who regularly runs over 100 miles per week or well over 100 miles per week. MP should feel somewhat easy through a half marathon. MP + 10 seconds feels relatively easy for 20 miles. It's like a 25 minute 8k guy running only a 4 mile tempo at 5:10-5:15 pace, a reasonable workout. However running 27? miles at supposedly 10 seconds slower than marathon pace, that is a bit aggressive. But sometimes people are 'cruising' and it makes you wonder how close to race effort they're really going. Can they go 15 seconds per mile faster? Or can they only go a few seconds per mile faster? Super big difference.
The truth probably lies somewhere in between.
CJ really likes to hammer. I think this is probably effective training, but only for so long. That said, he's been crushing these big workouts every, or every other weekend.
I bet his mindset is that it will take a really strong runner to win on a hilly course. I hope he and some of the guys that ran big PRs in chicago make it a tough race from the get go.
I think there's a chance he shows up and competes for a spot in the top 5. He also might be flat and run another 215. He's taking a risk, and you have to appreciate that.
ShilohDoesntCare wrote:
This is one of the dumbest workouts I've ever seen and the worst misuse of the word "cruising". He just ran beyond marathon distance at close to his marathon pace. It doesn't matter if CIM was tactical. This is not even a 2:09 runner but let's entertain that. Even if he was in 2:09 shape that's a difference of only ten seconds a mile. If you had a coach that told you to run marathon pace plus 10 seconds a mile for 27 miles you would instantly fire that coach. His heart rate was through the roof for this training run. What a waste. Also this is not a Walmsley type workout. Jim Walmsley is not this stupid. He will not make the team.
Yea assuming accurate HR data, lol at the use of the word cruising. 180bpm avg is not cruising. Heck it wouldn't really be cruising with a 220 maxHR.
This is pretty close to a full gas effort. Even if he recovers very well, it's unlikely he can go much faster than this. Worst case he completely blew his load.
If that HR was more like 150 or 160...then I'd say different story.
Woodward has "undulating hills?" That's a new one.
And this is easily the dumbest workout I've ever heard of. Albertson's 2:12 in Atlanta just vaporized. DNF trials day.
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