Former marathon star Rob de Castella calls Vaporflys "ludicrous – it definitely needs to be addressed."

back in the day, the shoes were pretty bad, very bad. caused the stride to suffer and injuries due to incorect foot strike, softness (unnatural) especially in the heel..

now they finally figured it out and good shoes, and they work.

reset the records

they will make cheap vapor fly copies soon enough.

reset the records

that way the old timers keep their times and records intact for ever.

plus you can get some data in how much the shoes really help, and you can do the conversion..

Yeah man, I know. Everyone in my group is racing in these really light weight shoes, like 5 & 6 ounces. Yet, I'm wearing 12 ounce shoes. It is just not fair. I shouldn't have buy a pair of 6 ounce shoes just to be competitive.

What "old timers" would get to keep their records forever if Vaporflys are banned? DeCastella, since that who the thread is about, lost his record before 1990. Almost any old timer who was once a record holder, with an occasional notable exception, Snell's 800 NZ record comes to mind, has become a former record holder.

Hardloper wrote:

Kvothe wrote:

Did you factor in the vaporflys into your 5k course record attempt? What if you wear them and they then invalidate your record? What if Jose has been training in pegs and he shows up to the race in vaporflys?

The Vaporfly Next% will not be banned and the alphaFLY is not yet available for me to purchase so that shouldn't be an issue. If Jose has them, that's an interesting scenario but I plan to have a big enough gap that it won't matter.

Agreed. I don’t think they will ban the Next% or Vaporfly but the AlphaFLY or whatever that monstrosity Kip wore in the Ineos challenge will be banned before it reaches mass production. I think it is the sensible thing to do at this point.

dchh wrote:

Better than Clayton's shoes.

https://busstoprunners.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/derek-clayton-pic.jpg

Lovely memories. I ran 2:47 when I was 16 in my very first marathon wearing those.

If only Nike would have just labled them as "A shoe that controls, captures, and returns your energy to help fuel your run!" We wouldn't even be having this discussion.........

donyiyo wrote:

dchh wrote:

Better than Clayton's shoes.

https://busstoprunners.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/derek-clayton-pic.jpg

Lovely memories. I ran 2:47 when I was 16 in my very first marathon wearing those.

You're a legend (no sarcasm at all, truly meant)!

LoneStarXC wrote:

MeHereYouWhere?! wrote:

Translation:

I wish these were around when I was running, I would have been even faster!

Lol, my thoughts exactly. He’s upset that so many people are running faster times than his, in part, due to the shoes. Boing boing!

No one in Oceania is running faster times than him even with the boing boing.

Maybe we need to change our terminology. Since technology and other factors change (shoes, tracks, pacers, water tables, etc.), perhaps instead of saying GOAT we need to say GOTT (Greatest of Their Time). Maybe Jesse Owens is the greatest sprinter of all time. Maybe Emil Zatopek is the true GOAT. We can't really compare runners from different eras. What are we going to do when we have 10 runners under 2:00? The best you can do is compare runners against the rivals in whatever time era you're looking at. Deek was a monster in his era. Leave it at that.

jonnyjinlondon wrote:

Deek is correct - the exact same thing happened in swimming with the performance-enhancing polyurethane super suits, which enhanced buoyancy and reduced fatigue. They were banned (in 2010 by FINA), because they were providing an obvious and truly massive advantage purely down to technological advancement - 100+ world records went down just after they were introduced. The vaporfly shoe is analagous to these swimming suits that were banned; having springs on your feet is not what it should be about, or we'd be pogosticking around; eventually there'd be a pogostick shoe that will allow for a 10 metre stride length. Once a shoe is providing more than a cushion and support, and an obvious advantage, it needs to go. Otherwise, it becomes a technological race, rather than an athletic one. Any 'world records' in a shoe like this needs to be scrubbed.

The same thing happened to bowling in the early 90s with the introduction of the reactive resin bowling balls and changing the configuration of the core. A good bowler could increase their average 20-30 pins. The bowling alley could also "block" their lanes to make it easier to roll high scores. The average bowlers loved that they could shoot much higher scores than before but the better bowlers eventually started leagues with tougher lane conditions that made it more about skill and less about equipment.

They weren’t banned as much as limited, men can’t where a full suit , only bottoms, and women get the top but no sleeves etc.

The can do he same thing with Vaporfly , limit the height, and number of carbon plates to one

Jim Fixx wrote of a runner at a narathon in Greece who showed up at the start line with two inches of foam glued to the bottoms of his shoes "apparently intending to bound around the course like a kangaroo". That was probably 40 years ago.

That man had vision.

This whole thing is White people wishing things were like the old days . You don't hear past African's crying like these whiny Aussies and Brits . Same with the old PGA Fkers talking abound the old wood drivers .

This from a guy who was against Nike his whole career...

There's only one solution to this dilemma. Ban shoes altogether and let them run barefoot. Didn't that Ethiopian guy win an Olympic marathon barefoot?

Haha. wrote:

I am Sam wrote:

They were better than mine at the time...and what pronation, the bloke did 200km/wk of hard running, you don't do that with any pronation

This pronation:

https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-161006283/view

From a photo you judge that someone pronates?

Do you know the definition of pronation?

simple solution wrote:

They weren’t banned as much as limited, men can’t where a full suit , only bottoms, and women get the top but no sleeves etc.

The can do he same thing with Vaporfly , limit the height, and number of carbon plates to one

Not quite the same. Suits, especially wetsuits, make you more buoyant.

Vapourflies do not give you energy from an external source. Absolutely none.

Think of it this way.

If I try to float without moving any feet, hands etc, I will sink. (Maybe some fatter or more bouyant people can, I know). If I put on a very bouyant suit, I will float.

If you have a little hidden motor in your bike wheel hub, you can press a button and not pedal at all yet move.

When trying to run, it doesn't matter what type of shoes you put on, you are not going to move without physically taking a step. Vapourflies will do jack all to move you

The physical/scientific fact is that vapourflies make you lose less energy on contact compared to conventional running shoes. The amount of energy loss you have is related to your running style (contact/backlift etc) and your tendons/muscles returning energy.

Vapourflies can potentially further minimise those losses.

Is this sport? wrote:

The way things are going the race will be over before it starts.

Oh man this thread should have been after this .

I laughed so hard I almost.......

Made my Saturday!!!

To the poster who knows Deek - beg him to come on here .

He is one of my idols!!

Does he ever visit the States?

I have noticed that people from the Antipodes are quite thick skinned.

Please , I beg , not to bust his balls - I would just like to say I have had discourse with one of the greatest ever.

Thanks!!!

I am Sam wrote:

Haha. wrote:

This pronation:

https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-161006283/view

From a photo you judge that someone pronates?

Do you know the definition of pronation?

Yes. He's pronating like crazy.