10k- 39:34; 1/2 M- 1:35:19... how can I break 3?

stil_kannonier wrote:

ThisGuy wrote:

That's one thing...but what's the history of your training partner? PR's? How much does she/he run? Are you currently in better fitness than them?

You're not giving us much of a frame of reference other than you hammer workouts back to back at paces far faster than marathon race pace yet can barely run that race pace for 8k...

He's got slightly better endurance, I've got slightly better speed. We very likely match up perfectly at 5k. I beat him in a road mile and a 3200 in july- 5:04 to 5:11; 11:06 to 11:17. I assume he could run about 30-40s faster in the 10k than me right now.

honestly I look quite relaxed running circles round the track and make a conscious effort for good mechanics and smooth stride without 'hammering' it. Now I just to have to extend that smoothness to 26 miles..haha.

I've got buddies who are much faster and run 10-15 miles a week that are in 17 minute shape. I run with them. It doesn't mean I'm in that shape. If your partner was running the same amount as you (training period/sessions/mileage), and you beat them by that much in races, then what you're saying would make sense. Is that the case?

Sounds like you're comparing your training blocks to a guy who just goes out and regularly runs...

Dude was an All-american in college for 5/10k, 10 years ago. Whereas I'm on month 14 of running. I am very pleased to beat him in any race as well as to be going on training runs with him.

Hit 60 for the week.

12/09 - 10 ez @9:00/mile

12/10 - 4@goalMP, 4 intervals@10k

12/11 - 5 ez, 3.5@goal mp

12/12 - 7 ez @8:30

12/13 - 8 ez @7:05

12/14 - 9 ez @7:20

12/15 - 10 ez @7:40

Didnt get a "long" run in. But body feels pretty good considering the mileage jump. Now to keep it consistent.

Goals - Slowing down the intervals this week, upping miles at goal MP, run slower ez days, get the long run in

How is 8:30 EZ and 7:05 EZ? That's a huge gap in "ez" mileage.

wut?! wrote:

How is 8:30 EZ and 7:05 EZ? That's a huge gap in "ez" mileage.

Different terrains. 8:30 pace was rolling hills. 7:05 pace was pancake flat.

stil_kannonier wrote:

wut?! wrote:

How is 8:30 EZ and 7:05 EZ? That's a huge gap in "ez" mileage.

Different terrains. 8:30 pace was rolling hills. 7:05 pace was pancake flat.

Maybe you should go for 2:50 or something if 7:00 min pace is easy

stil_kannonier wrote:

So I'm thinking for the 8k race this can be my segway into the long run - 4 mile wu, 8k race, 4 mile cd = 13 miles.

The Segway may be the secret to a sub-3 marathon for you.

I don't know if anyone has made this explicit (it's common knowledge among runners), but your 4:52 mile is a bad sign, not a good sign. When you have two people with similar times at 10K or half marathon, the person with a significantly slower mile will almost always be faster in a marathon.

( . . . assuming recent honest efforts at both distances.)

In other words, your pattern of times is the evidence on which most people on the thread are basing comments about your need for better endurance. And endurance isn't built quickly.

Your mile speed is a good sign of future potential, but if the marathon is your goal, that is likely only to be realized over a period of years, not months.

I think I would have rather seen you do 1 tempo workout and 1 long run last week of about 14-16 miles. You only have about 6 weeks (4 weeks factoring in tapering the long runs) left in training from this weekend and you haven't really done a long run. The marathon is a different ball game past 18 miles. And by not doing long runs this late in training you may be too late. Because realistically you don't have enough time to get a few quality 20-24 mile runs in since you haven't even done a build up to those miles. The marathon is like the Mike Tyson quote "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." You need to know what it's like to get punched a bunch, aka long runs.

I'd maybe even recommend lowering those 8-9 mile easy runs so that you are more fresh for your weekend long run

stil_kannonier wrote:

Didnt get a "long" run in. But body feels pretty good considering the mileage jump. Now to keep it consistent.

Goals - Slowing down the intervals this week, upping miles at goal MP, run slower ez days, get the long run in

I'm trying to stay bullish on your chances for sub-3, but I gotta agree with the previous poster: a long run was critical to schedule last week.

The pace of the runs is less important than just going long, once a week. The 60 miles, total, is great, but 8-12-8-8-6-18-off would have been a better way of getting there.

In your position, I would schedule a 20-mile run this week. Run as slow as necessary. Walk, even, if you need.

Good luck. It'll be fun.

Allen1959 wrote:

...

So many on LRC take marathons so darn seriously. They only run one or two a year, at most, so each one is a BIG deal.

My PR marathon was the third in three months (2:40) ... my sixth marathon in a year. I've also jumped into marathons after only three training runs during the previous six months -- just because I wanted to. So what if I had to walk some at 20 miles! They were all enjoyable.

Regarding the half marathon, I would RACE it, but would definitely taper a couple days prior to it, and take a couple easy days afterwards. You can still log some decent weekly mileage, though.

Good luck. And enjoy!

Listen to Allen, his above post was refreshing.

Have a go! Your not a million miles away. If it goes wrong, meh so what? Have another go later.

Allen1959 wrote:

I'm trying to stay bullish on your chances for sub-3, but I gotta agree with the previous poster: a long run was critical to schedule last week.

The pace of the runs is less important than just going long, once a week. The 60 miles, total, is great, but 8-12-8-8-6-18-off would have been a better way of getting there.

In your position, I would schedule a 20-mile run this week. Run as slow as necessary. Walk, even, if you need.

Good luck. It'll be fun.

Thanks Allen, this week was good and I am doing the Long Run today, 2 hours.

12/16 70 minutes, 7.5 miles, 9:15 pace

12/17 67 minutes, 9 miles, 7:28 pace

12/18 3 miles easy during business travel

12/19 72 minutes, 9.2 miles, 7:50 pace

Been trying to keep the heart rate under 150, I have to run so incredibly slow to do so! I guess that indicates the lack of endurance.

This is going to come off like a troll comment, but I'm calling BS on this. If your training partner really was an All-American at 5K/10K 10 years ago there’s no way he’s only running 17:25 for 5K now on 25-35 mpw unless he has completely let himself go. Just off muscle memory alone he would HAVE TO be faster. But if this all is actually legit good luck with the marathon, and like several people who have forgotten far more about running then I will ever know (and have run much faster marathons than me) have said, get some long runs in!

stil_kannonier wrote:

12/16 70 minutes, 7.5 miles, 9:15 pace

12/17 67 minutes, 9 miles, 7:28 pace

12/18 3 miles easy during business travel

12/19 72 minutes, 9.2 miles, 7:50 pace

Update. I think I'm trending in the right direction, but am starting to believe my doubters that it can't be done. 6:50 miles for 26 miles by February will take a special effort on my part.

12/20 9 - 7:33/mile

12/21 3 - easy; travel & sick

12/22 3 - easy; travel & sick

week total: 43

12/23 15 - 9:00, 8:23, 8:43, 8:28, 8:47, 7:53, 7:59, 7:46, 6:59, 6:54, 6:53, 6:59, 6:43, 6:58, 6:37

12/24 6 - 9:17/mile

12/25 6 - 7:43/mile

12/26 9 - 8:24/mile

12/27 6 - 8:59/mile

12/28 12 - 9:14, 9:13, 9:14, 9:07, 6:45, 6:39, 6:51, 6:49, 6:38, 6:33, 7:48, 8:23

12/29 9 - 8:20/mile

week total: 63

stil_kannonier wrote:

stil_kannonier wrote:

12/16 70 minutes, 7.5 miles, 9:15 pace

12/17 67 minutes, 9 miles, 7:28 pace

12/18 3 miles easy during business travel

12/19 72 minutes, 9.2 miles, 7:50 pace

Update. I think I'm trending in the right direction, but am starting to believe my doubters that it can't be done. 6:50 miles for 26 miles by February will take a special effort on my part.

12/20 9 - 7:33/mile

12/21 3 - easy; travel & sick

12/22 3 - easy; travel & sick

week total: 43

12/23 15 - 9:00, 8:23, 8:43, 8:28, 8:47, 7:53, 7:59, 7:46, 6:59, 6:54, 6:53, 6:59, 6:43, 6:58, 6:37

12/24 6 - 9:17/mile

12/25 6 - 7:43/mile

12/26 9 - 8:24/mile

12/27 6 - 8:59/mile

12/28 12 - 9:14, 9:13, 9:14, 9:07, 6:45, 6:39, 6:51, 6:49, 6:38, 6:33, 7:48, 8:23

12/29 9 - 8:20/mile

week total: 63

I was one of the “doubters,” but as I said before, I am rooting for you. You’re putting in some great quality miles, which will definitely help your long-term development. It likely will take longer than Feb. to get there, but with incremental progress you certainly can. Do your runs with current fitness in mind and it will lead to the best sustained growth and also be better for keeping you motivated. Your current mindset sounds much healthier.

Wishing you all the best in the upcoming marathon. What marathon is it btw?

I think the best thing for you to do performance wise is to take the pressure off of yourself in regards to meeting a set time standard. This will help you to relax, loosen up, and who knows, you may surprise yourself and us!

Go out and enjoy yourself, remembering this is supposed to be fun. Its a hobby, not a job. But know that you are going to be in some negative head spaces in the last 3rd of the race, so be wise when setting out on race day, and be humble and not full of hubris.

Ultimately you're performing for yourself and not for anyone else. Wishing you all the best and I am genuinely interested in your result. You've done lots of good training the last several weeks (sickness and all) that will pay dividends in the cycles to come.

stil_kannonier wrote:

12/16 70 minutes, 7.5 miles, 9:15 pace

12/17 67 minutes, 9 miles, 7:28 pace

12/18 3 miles easy during business travel

12/19 72 minutes, 9.2 miles, 7:50 pace

12/20 9 - 7:33/mile

12/21 3 - easy; travel & sick

12/22 3 - easy; travel & sick

week total: 43

12/23 15 - 9:00,8:23,8:43,8:28,8:47,7:53,7:59,7:46, 6:59, 6:54, 6:53, 6:59, 6:43, 6:58, 6:37

12/24 6 - 9:17/mile

12/25 6 - 7:43/mile

12/26 9 - 8:24/mile

12/27 6 - 8:59/mile

12/28 12 - 9:14, 9:13, 9:14, 9:07, 6:45, 6:39, 6:51, 6:49, 6:38, 6:33, 7:48, 8:23

12/29 9 - 8:20/mile

week total: 63

12/30 10 - 7:53/mile

12/31 5.5 - 8:45/mile

01/01 5.5 - 8:20/mile

01/02 9 - 7:58/mile

01/03 5 - 9:40/mile

01/04 1/2M Trail Race - (1:36:47) 7:38, 7:28, 7:33, 7:46, 7:35, 7:46, 7:35, 7:22, 6:55, 7:27, 7:28, 7:42, 7:41, 7:31, 6:11. 2 mile w/u.

01/05 3 - easy recovery

week total: 53

Not sure what my 1/2M time converts too, it was an extremely technical/primitive trail with 832 elev gain. But I won the race so that was nice and confidence boosting. Taking it easy today. Tomorrow hot yoga in the am to stretch the kinks out of my legs and in the pm a 6k tempo on the track @6:50 pace. Final week to hit 60 again before beginning taper.