There's no way Jakob Ingebrigtsen has achieved his results naturally

Man, that ‘Facts and Reason’ guy had some idiotic arguments. Glad that’s over with.

I've heard that the guys in Bowerman Track Club eat like SH*T. Lomong too. Seem to be pretty good runners...but that's probably cause they didn't start out obese

LoneStarXC wrote:

I agree. And, as I’ve posted before, Henrik Ingebrigtsen was flagged as “likely doping” on the Fancy Bears leak. The Fancy Bears are up to their old tricks again, and the new leaks are apparently going to be released soon, so it will be interesting to see if there’s dirt on Jakob Ingebrigtsen specifically.

Well I wonder if Gjert’s situation could be related to this.

reindeer milk wrote:

At his age, it's just not possible. He and his brothers are doping like crazy.

Clickbaitgasmic.

LoneStarXC wrote:

I agree. And, as I’ve posted before, Henrik Ingebrigtsen was flagged as “likely doping” on the Fancy Bears leak. The Fancy Bears are up to their old tricks again, and the new leaks are apparently going to be released soon, so it will be interesting to see if there’s dirt on Jakob Ingebrigtsen specifically.

Fancy Bears? Why do you have any faith in what Fancy Bears have said?

Maybe, maybe not wrote:

I’m torn because at this point I feel like everyone is cheating, but I also feel like he’s been training at a higher level than any other 18 year old I know (home school etc). But where would they be getting the drugs? And how would they have figured out how to dose.

Agreed. Unfortunately I have become somewhat dismissive of the idea that the top level of competition is close to clean. A combo of the Mitchell Report, Le Tour de France, Icarus, and More Plates More Dates guy on YouTube, along with old high school buddies who openly talked about "wet season" (period of no drug testing in NCAA) has made me pretty jaded.

Blood doping is most likely. Same with Warholm. It's a Norwegian heritage. Their XC skiers were always dominating in the early 2000s and guess what, they were blood doping.

Agreed. Yakob is blood doping.

facts matter wrote:

If Asbel is cheating for fast times, then why did he regress and become slower than his countrymen?

Two possibilities:

- He got slower, and then started doping

- Doping made him slower

reindeer milk wrote:

At his age, it's just not possible. He and his brothers are doping like crazy.

This generously assumes that his results could be achieved unnaturally with doping.

The science so far is inconclusive, and anecdotes are even less conclusive.

Someone bumped a 2-year old thread...

The Ingebritsens are about as clean as the elite American track and field athletes.

rekrunner wrote:

facts matter wrote:

If Asbel is cheating for fast times, then why did he regress and become slower than his countrymen?

Two possibilities:

- He got slower, and then started doping

- Doping made him slower

LOL

Two more realistic possibilities:

- He was doping all the time, and sooner or later slowed down like everybody else;

- He reduced his doping after getting target-tested, and slowed down because of that.

rekrunner wrote:

reindeer milk wrote:

At his age, it's just not possible. He and his brothers are doping like crazy.

This generously assumes that his results could be achieved unnaturally with doping.

The science so far is inconclusive, and anecdotes are even less conclusive.

I literally laughed out loud, thank you.

Command This wrote:

Someone bumped a 2-year old thread...

I blame rojo.

casual obsever wrote:

LOL

Two more realistic possibilities:

- He was doping all the time, and sooner or later slowed down like everybody else;

- He reduced his doping after getting target-tested, and slowed down because of that.

Possibly. But "more realistic"? That's a matter of opinion.

casual obsever wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

This generously assumes that his results could be achieved unnaturally with doping.

The science so far is inconclusive, and anecdotes are even less conclusive.

I literally laughed out loud, thank you.

You would. But that doesn't improve the robustness of conclusions so far from science, nor from the anecdotes.

As we see from this thread, and many others, there are many mythical properties that have yet to be confirmed.

Some schoolboy maybe could interpret these stats correctly, but not you, as you have shown here.

If your "low 20% range" is correct, there should be almost 45% arabs at the world champs. But at most 75 arabs competed, around 5% from all competitors. You show this over and over again Coevett, that you are completely unable to interpret some statistics correctly.

I don't find it very interesting what a schoolboy can infer from those stats. It takes an expert in statistics to interpret stats, and even experts can be fooled because statistics is not always intuitive.

The estimate behind the Pan Arab Games comes from 965 athletes participating in 27 different sports, only 1 of which is the sport of Athletics. The Pan Arab Games athletes are also not quite the same caliber as World Championship athletes. So any comparison between "PAG" and "WCA" estimates is apples to oranges. We could, like the fictitious schoolboy Coevett invented, infer Arabs are "dirtier". But we could equally infer Athletics is "cleaner", on average, than 26 other sports, or that World Championship caliber athletes are "cleaner" than Pan Arab Games caliber athletes. But we shouldn't place too much emphasis on fictitious schoolboy inferences, or any assumed or made up stats from Coevett.

Although Coevett simply made up the "low 20% range" figure, for non-Russian, non-African athletes, there is a data-backed reason to arrive at this estimate, for all 2011 WAC athletes, including Russians and Africans and non-Africans. Table 6 from an Appendix the same paper publishes "SSC method" data -- an alternate RRT technique with the additional ability to estimate non-compliance. The results of plugging this raw data into an SSC calculator gives an estimate of 21% doping prevalence, while estimating 30% non-compliance to the survey.

Regarding who dopes, no one actually claims "EVERYBODY dopes". WADA publishes annual figures telling us how many athletes from each country are busted for doping. These tables should serve as a minimum indication of the breadth of doping.