Craig Engels on Hassan: "I’ll defend her to the death..She is the hardest worker I’ve ever seen in this sport."

Hardloper wrote:

Let's get to the bottom of this wrote:

(link)

Once again, there is zero chance she or Alsal would risk taking EPO right before a drug test and hope that chugging water somehow will throw off the tests enough to pass. One small miscalculation and your career is over.

The presumption of that protocol is that you don't know in advance whether you will be tested. Most days you aren't. If somehow you were forewarned then of course you would withhold the drugs. And if somehow your tester shows up during your "glow window", you fail to hear the doorbell.

you described the real word wrote:

What you described is what happens in the real world outside of athletics. Law enforcement, globally use informants to catch so-called terrorists and so-called drug dealers. Most informants never see the inside of a courtroom. The names of informants are only known to a limited number in law enforcement. The names and statements of informants do not show on official documents. It's the same thing here with Salazar bust. THE ONLY WAY Salazar was busted was because of statements made by athletes to I.A.A.F. Athletes telling EVERYTHING to I.A.A.F. I.A.A.F. decided to write the report in a careful manner as you stated poster.

You didn't read it, you have no idea what's in it and the IAAF didn't write the report to brainless twit. You have no idea what the f*ck you are talking about, please shut up before you further embarrass yourself.

IF she got tested 8 times in 3 weeks, it is likely because USADA suspects she is dirty. They might have been trying to catch her in her final heavy workout phase just before taper and cycling off of whatever she might have been using.

As others have said, passing tests does not make an athlete clean. Passing tests is a matter of knowing what is being tested and making sure your blood & urine will not cross any of the thresholds. xADA is the secondary tester of these athletes in many cases. A certain Italian coach has routinely posted blood data for athletes. US Postal Cycling team was doing their own blood testing. NOP was doing its own testing. Let me state the obvious: THERE IS NO REASON TO TAKE BLOOD UNLESS YOU ARE MANIPULATING IT! It costs money and unless you are doing something with the data to enhance the athlete, it is a pointless exercise. Alberto Salazar was in constant contact with USADA checking what substances were legal and what the legal limits were of certain blood markers. Why would someone need to do that if not to get right up to the limits but not trigger positive tests?

My statements without even naming one specific person irritated you so much, you responded to me with irrelevant name calling and inarticulate swearing. You have made me more confident now than an hour or so ago that I nailed it! Why would I read a cover up piece? A cover up piece which states I.A.A.F. took down the most famous living track& field coach because he gave his athletes too many legal supplements & vitamins. Why read a white wash report like that? Respond when you're sober. You look like a fool drunk typing.

Engels has been one of the most respectful and well-mannered individuals throughout this whole ordeal. Good on him for not throwing Hassan under the bus.

I will never understand why people like Willis, Simpson, and others who have engaged in moral posturing on this issue garner so much support from LRC.

Craig Engels. Oh boy. What an addition to the sport.

I appreciated him sticking around during the World Championships to answer all those questions because it really helps you to understand the frame of mind of someone who would join the group post 2015 in the first place.

Craig somehow has drifted through life believing he is free of any blame or responsibility in all things. That was clear. As far as Craig was concerned, it was as if Alberto never even existed, but meanie Jenny was out to get him for no reason. It was fascinating to watch. Endless props to Cathal for challenging him on it and reminding him that Alberto was the one who caused all this to begin with.

The instagram post the next day praising Pete was further proof of this. It was like Craig truly believed he was not responsible for what group he joined and what he did and who he associated with. "I was partying in college when all this came out!" great, bud, but when you were looking where to go once you graduated, did you have google to help?

Some dudes just float through life without being held accountable for anything. Guess Craig is one of them.

You sound really bitter. Mom send you to bed early?

While I agree with the main points (which I will explain later), it is not true that you only draw blood if you want to manipulate it.

Every elite team and college team draws blood every few months, to check for:

1) thyroid conditions - these need to be treated asap, or the athlete will fall apart in academic life AND athletic performance

2) iron status - especially with females needs to be addressed immediately

3) vit D status - important for all

4) anemia

5) CPK values, to make sure the muscles are recovering appropriately

6) general health values, like blood pressure

So you see even without intention to doping/use illegal stuff, blood needs to be drawn. The thing with Salazar (and Dr Brown) is, he did not just treat deficiency's like any other team, he tried to optimize all values regardless of there being a deficiency or not, even if it comes at a health risk for the athlete (for example, thyroid meds without conditions can lead to hyperthyroidism and Ritz and some female athletes actually got these conditions and felt terrible under Salazar/Brown's treatment).

So far we are still legal. However, he also optimized testosterone levels (always testing for it, and increasing it illegally) and did massive L-carnitine infusions. People wrongly assume that he only gave Magness a 1-liter infusion, and stuck with 50 ml infusions to everyone else (which would be allowed). Truth is, they also did 1-liter infusions with elite NOP athletes, but changed the records (there is proof for that) stating it was only 50 ml. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that changing records, and doing the infusion with just Dr Brown+elite athlete+Salazar makes it 100% untraceable. Furthermore, we only know what Salazar did what athletes talked. Rupp and Goucher were definitely not the closest links to Salazar, so he never exposed them to the really hard AND secret stuff he might have used on athletes like Rupp, Farah and Hassan. These athletes obviously won't talk if they did anything against the rules, and no one has a chance of finding proof. The WADA and everyone who follows the sport knows what's going on, we just can't provide concrete proof because they operate in secrecy and keep their mouths shut (ever heard about a convicted doper? They also NEVER admit they took something, even after multiple positive tests, see Kiprop et. al.).

Hardloper wrote:

Jambo Cabao wrote:

Jama Aden's group was cought with dozens and dozens of loaded syringes of EPO, HGH, and steroids; Aden himself was caught disposing those syringes; he was arrested, had his passport revoked, and was banned from the Olympics; and almost four years later not one failed test, not bans, no vacated performances, and not even one single WADA accusation or investigation. What makes you think a lack of mentioning EPO in some silly report means there was no EPO? It is almost impossible to detect, and it is a wonder drug.

Hamza Driouch and Laila Traby tested positive for EPO under Aden

Traby did but Driouch didn't. Driouch was banned for two years for ABP-hematological anomalies from London (maybe he didn't know about "hyperhydration." Lol). Traby was ambushed at her apartment in the Pyrenees where she was altitude training. Authorities found EPO in her frig - she was subsequently arrested and tested positive for EPO later while still in custody. Both cases were before the Aden arrest in Operation Rial.

No one tested positive for anything during that doping training camp at Operation Rial. None of the athletes have had bans of ABP violations either. Only Musaeb Balla was banned 4-years for possessing doping products (EPO) found in his suitcase. Lol. So, it looks like so far, that with the exception of poor Baala, everyone else including the mastermind behind the operation have gotten away with it.

bladerunner wrote:

2. Comparing Lance Armstrong to runners is apples and oranges. Cycling's main event goes for 3 weeks, is team oriented, and has far more money than running. Blood transfusions were a major part of cycling, which is not even applicable to running. Armstrong's entire team and support staff were part of his deception. Hard to imagine that kind of structure would work in an individual sport like running.

Huh?...I guess you haven't been paying attention to doping schemes in the last 15 yrs or so?

After the EPO test was implemented in 2001 for sanctionable cases, Russia starting using transfusions inconjuction with microdosing EPO (to influence the RET% and try to keep the Off-score down), and also with the usual steroids & T (i.e. "Russian cocktails."). They would obviously withdrawal blood in the off season and re-infuse at key events during the competition season. Ukraine & Belarus were also basically doing the same techniques (former Soviet-block countries). Russia, Ukraine & Belarus have combine for a world-leading 45+ ABP-hematological anomalies sanctions (there's more pending cases on the AIU provisional-suspensions list).

Also, Austrian 800m NR holder & Olympic silver medalist Stephanie Graf served a doping ban when she was caught up in an Austrian blood doping ring (Humanplasma laboratory). She admitted to having blood withdrawn but said she wasn't going to re-infuse it. ?

And Ethiopian-Spanaird Alemayehu Bezabe served a ban for his role in Operation Galgo (blood transfusions & PEDs) where he was "caught red-handed carrying a bag of his own blood for a blood transfusion." ?

Actually Lance did fail tests. They just covered them up.

Who?

Doping Training Camps wrote:

https://spainsnews.com/the-tas-punishes-a-qatari-athlete-detained-in-sabadell-for-four-years-for-doping-sports/

Very interesting from this article. Add another athlete to Aden's group that has come up positive. Shame on Dibaba. Still with him as coach, I believe.

"(Balla) is not the only athlete trained by Aden in the summer camps of Sabadell that has been suspended for doping. In November 2017, the TAS sanctioned for two years the athlete Belthem Desalegn for her biological passport of 2014. Desalegn participated in the summer camps of Aden in Sabadell since 2013 and was also at the hotel Arrahona the day the Mossos took out the operation against Aden.

Craig reminds me of this guy

https://youtu.be/iTwIwfvNJLk?t=75

Sick and tired of it! wrote:

ezrzerze wrote:

Craig clearly doesn't know how this works.

Lance was the most tested on the planet.

If Hassan gets tested 8 times in 3 weeks, that's not proof that she is clean, it's because the testers know she is dirty and she is gaming the system.

Again, this is why the sport is a joke to most of the world.

If you are fast, you are doping.

If you are charismatic and open, you are stupid and gullible.

If you pass every drug test ever, it's doesn't matter because Lance Armstrong did the same.

I wish I could throat punch ever one of you motherfuckers that are ruining our sport!

I completely understand your frustration, my friend. Sport is a proxy for modern day life; these people who wants to find cheats, liers and fraudsters in athletes are likely projecting how they feel about themselves in life. They would do well to read some Jung, particularly his writing on the "shadow". Many people need scapegoats. It's very sad.

I hope engels doesn't turn out to be as big a douche as centrowitz.

I am so sick of the "they work so hard" defense. Almost all world-class athletes work as hard as they physically can without pushing over the edge and injuring or exhausting themselves so they can't perform on race day. That's the benefit of PED's Craig, they allow you to train harder than you would without them, hence the benefit. No one who understands elite running ever accuses dopers of not working hard. When you say things like so and so does crazy or superhuman workouts you're not helping your argument.

On top of an overwhelmingly strong likelihood of being dirty, Hassan seems like an unpleasant person. There is nothing anyone can really do about a lack of charisma, but Hassan is like the anti-Kipchoge, always looking like she just stole something or watched anonymously sourced video of her boyfriend slipping her best friend some tongue.

It's interesting that Engels, who is very likable, is continuing to explore this conversation even when he could clam up outright or offer some basic pablum to the press. He apparently enjoys a little controversy for its own sake. Sometimes young athletes can maintain that for a career, like Charles Barkley, while others change their approach because the attention ultimately grinds them down.