Craig Engels fires back at Simpson: "Jenny is just brutal... when she gets in front of a camera she gets on a high horse."

Pretty much bingo. In fact, I think everyone almost unanimously agrees Salazar is guilty. There is enough stuff in there to be pretty sure Salazar committed infractions.

The bigger, more important discussions, is whether this casts a bigger cloud over the NOP athletes. Based on the testimony from the 2 arbitration panels, I actually feel better that Salazar was ensuring clean sport for his athletes and that some of the cloud has been lifted from the athletes themselves.

There is literally only one piece of evidence that is possibly suspect of NOP athlete violations in all of this, and that's the chart from Rupp of "presently on testosterone medication". It's suspect. But it could be wrong, as is common, and we have no idea what "testosterone medication" means. It could be hundreds of legal things. It could also be something illegal. Don't know. No way to know. But based on what I've heard, and the lack of ANY of these athletes with axes to grind against Salazar coming out and talking about hard doping infractions...I don't think they are.

If Kara or Magness or Adam or Dathan, or any anybody involved would have seen blatant doping that's the FIRST item they would have brought up. But even those guys, with clear axes to grind (because Salazar is a mega a$$hole) have nothing but shady allegations of some gray area stuff...none of which occured in NOP athletes. Their claims are all "i heard this" or "i heard that". There are no "I saw Salazar giving an infusion" or "I was told to inject this syringe".

If there was "hard" doping, or anything illegal, someone would have come out with it. Rupp is the only one (and he is a special case as Salazar's personal project) that could mayyybbeeeee be argued as having a cloud due to that chart. Even with Rupp, that's the extent of it.

live in a grown up world wrote:

Jenny B Brave wrote:

Yeah, that attitude was great for cycling. Also for running in the EPO-fueled 90s.

You are pathetic. Don't project your cowardice on others.

She for sure should shut up and run. The cyclists themselves didn't clean up their own sport. Complaining and bitc#ing never solved anything. Let the lawyers and investigators do their jobs with actual facts, actual process, not conjecture.

You're so fcuking wrong. Those who have skin in the game have to make sure these things get public attention and stay there too. Nike has spent a lot of money to keep this dragging on and on. Basically they've been paying to keep this under the blankets. Clean athletes have the biggest interest in outing the bad hombres.

qof wrote:

Jenny is a veteran in the sport. A legend. Would have been disappointing if she had skirted the question about NOP. And here's Engels, using "we" when referring to Alberto's group...

Oh, also, calling a woman "wild" and "brutal" for sharing an opinion when her opinion was ASKED for: incredibly shitty. He clearly wanted her to play nice and gentle. Grow up.

Word.

JudgeSmollett wrote:

live in a grown up world wrote:

She for sure should shut up and run. The cyclists themselves didn't clean up their own sport. Complaining and bitc#ing never solved anything. Let the lawyers and investigators do their jobs with actual facts, actual process, not conjecture.

You're so fcuking wrong. Those who have skin in the game have to make sure these things get public attention and stay there too. Nike has spent a lot of money to keep this dragging on and on. Basically they've been paying to keep this under the blankets. Clean athletes have the biggest interest in outing the bad hombres.

Wrong. If she is not there then she doesn't know s#it. You are a fool if you think bitc#ing and complaining ever solved anything. Maybe she's a bad hombre? Anyone can claim anything according to your rules of conduct.

seikosha wrote:

CNN wrote:

I love Engles...BUT...at 1:51 he says he didn't know anything about charges when he joined the group....then at 4:16 he says he asked Peter about it "before he joined the group....Somewhere in there lies the truth.

Yeah, I picked this up as well and am surprised that people aren't jumping on it. Engels clearly isn't being 100% honest in his responses. He slipped here and obviously is trying to hide at least one facet of this issue.

Great interview though and kudos to him for sticking around and talking when the subject came up.

These aren't mutually exclusive.

He didn't know about the charges, investigation and appeal etc. He of course had heard rumors and speculation and asked about that.

JudgeSmollett wrote:

live in a grown up world wrote:

She for sure should shut up and run. The cyclists themselves didn't clean up their own sport. Complaining and bitc#ing never solved anything. Let the lawyers and investigators do their jobs with actual facts, actual process, not conjecture.

You're so fcuking wrong. Those who have skin in the game have to make sure these things get public attention and stay there too. Nike has spent a lot of money to keep this dragging on and on. Basically they've been paying to keep this under the blankets. Clean athletes have the biggest interest in outing the bad hombres.

Didn't realize Laura Ingraham frequents these boards although I guess I shouldn't be totally shocked.

LRC, who always seems to condemn doping, seems to has been very quick to declare Engels a good guy/hero for talking to them in the mixed zone and for giving them a quote attacking Jenny that was sure to rile up some men on here into saying mean things towards her. Engels should be doing a lot more than doing a bit better than his teammates that are claiming they're just kids and/or didn't know the group was being investigated. He is complicit by not condemning Salazar and preaching clean sport. Jenny has her proof. Alberto was banned 4 years. You're out of touch if you don't think Salazar was doping up NOP runners. We need athletes to call out Nike & call for some integrity. I like what Jenny did/said. Engels is a child and needs to recognize he has some power right now to call on Nike/Salazar to do better.

Engels has no problem with a coach who is an admitted doper who already had an athlete test positive.

That's fine if Craig feels that way. But he needs to own up to it.

Salazar is no different then Dennis Mitchell. Used drugs as an athlete, had an athlete he coached test positive, and somehow is always around and implicated in shady things.

applebees fall from trees wrote:

Engels has no problem with a coach who is an admitted doper who already had an athlete test positive.

That's fine if Craig feels that way. But he needs to own up to it.

Salazar is no different then Dennis Mitchell. Used drugs as an athlete, had an athlete he coached test positive, and somehow is always around and implicated in shady things.

+1

And then people have the nerve to attack those pros who vocalize as much when they are asked.

The sad part is they are both hypocrites who take TUEs, so really they both are kind of on a taller than average horse.

Anyone see Nike’s CEO deny they were involved in systematic doping,...wow, like nobody even asked bro but thanks for letting us know.

live in a grown up world wrote:

Jenny B Brave wrote:

Yeah, that attitude was great for cycling. Also for running in the EPO-fueled 90s.

You are pathetic. Don't project your cowardice on others.

She for sure should shut up and run. The cyclists themselves didn't clean up their own sport. Complaining and bitc#ing never solved anything. Let the lawyers and investigators do their jobs with actual facts, actual process, not conjecture.

Of course. Let's not expect the athletes themselves to try to keep the sport honest and clean.

????

Great video. wrote:

Great mullet.

Amazing personality! When I watched the video, I wasn't sure whether he is a beer drinking trailer park dude or a new Pre.

Are you really stupid enough to believe that an athlete would dto[ in the middle of the biggest competition in his life and read the report -- or listen to his coach and take his coaches advice and stay focused on his races?

LM wrote:

There is literally only one piece of evidence that is possibly suspect of NOP athlete violations in all of this, and that's the chart from Rupp of "presently on testosterone medication". It's suspect. But it could be wrong, as is common, and we have no idea what "testosterone medication" means.

There are a lot more pieces of evidence. And really, "it could be wrong, as is common"? It's common that doctors write wrong notes?

See for example the testo findings from the decision:

- Salazar was a testo cheat as athlete

- Salazar coached testo cheat Decker

- Salazar was seen with testo around his athletes in 2008 while not having a prescription

- Salazar's own testo levels went down after he obtained a larger testo prescription

- a witness reported that "Alberto Salazar’s athletes" used "thyroid and testosterone therapy"

- "a Galen Rupp medical record from 2002 that included the line “Presently on prednisone and testosterone medication”."

- Salazar routinely send the professional masseuse away to give Rupp private massages behind closed doors

There's also evidence that a handful of NOP athletes received illegal transfusions, but the panel voted in a 2 : 1 decision that that evidence isn't sufficient for a conviction.