4% & Next% Training

Cotswold runner wrote:

So around my way I’m seeing more people training in the 4% or Next%.

I’ve always thought of this as a race day shoe. By training and racing in it are you diluting your potential race day performance

Cool story bro. Apparently you're wrong.

Did you ever think folks might also own more than one pair?

I've got a few pairs I train in and a pair I save for race days. If you can afford and are willing to shell out for them, who cares how you run in them? If the shoes provide enough placebo or less leg fatigue or whatever in your training, it makes your training that much better. Races come down to the crowds and the act of racing with other people, in my personal experience. That may be because I run by myself 99% of the time, I don't know. I wear what I want. And I am a hobby jogger.

I own and have raced in the Next%. I used them for 2 key workouts before that, but otherwise I'm saving them for races.

It's not just the expense. I have satisfied for myself that the 4%/Next% work - racing in them was one of the most amazing running experiences of my life - but I don't think anyone knows yet how they work. Maybe it's all a giant placebo effect, but I don't think so.

So my reasoning goes like this: By doing daily runs and workouts in regular shoes, I build up strength in some unknown factor X. Because of how the N% is constructed, I use up X at a lower rate than normal under race conditions, allowing me to run faster. If I trained in the N%, I would not have to build up X, so I would lose some of the race day effect.

I don't know if this reasoning is true. But it's plausible enough to me that I'm saving my Next% for races a 1-2 key workouts before a goal race, no matter how much I like running in them.

That's exactly what I am doing too. Bought a pair and wearing them to 2 hard quality "dress rehearsals" before my race.

and i have done 1 out of 2 of the workouts. Basically having to adjust my time goal because the first one came so easy.

I do my long runs in them when ‘thon training. Much easier to bounce back from a 20 miler wearing them than “normal” shoes.

This is similar to the "steroids" of the 70s and 80s. The steroid didn't make you stronger, but taking it allowed you to recover faster, train more and see quicker gains. that was the enhanced performance.

The 4%s allow you to run faster with less stress, so you can recover quicker and then do more again, sooner.

It makes perfect sense to train in them if the goal is to not get so beat up from the workouts, or to run faster in the workouts.

I would have a separate pair for racing, as I believe those shoes have only "so many steps" in them before they lose their spring.

No point in using the %'s for low aerobic, intervals, hills, short runs.

I only like them for a few long tempo runs before the race.

I think if you wear them all the time your form will degrade, as there is not much proprioception for your feet.

faintly striated wrote:

So my reasoning goes like this: By doing daily runs and workouts in regular shoes, I build up strength in some unknown factor X. Because of how the N% is constructed, I use up X at a lower rate than normal under race conditions, allowing me to run faster. If I trained in the N%, I would not have to build up X, so I would lose some of the race day effect.

I don't know if this reasoning is true. But it's plausible enough to me that I'm saving my Next% for races a 1-2 key workouts before a goal race, no matter how much I like running in them.

My theory is that if I do this, I will race with a shoe I'm not too familiar with. If they "work" and give me a boost, I will run faster and with slightly different form than during most of my preparation, and I will not be sure about my pacing in the race and might feel off. They feel so different compared to other shoes.

But I wouldn't run all easy runs with them, just the long tempos and race specific workouts. As others mentioned they are not exactly the best for foot health in long term.

Also they wear out as a racing shoe pretty quickly (100 miles) but after that they're a really good training shoe for another 200 miles or so

I wear them for races and long runs over 15 miles.

Otherwise I use a smattering of other shoes like the Zoom fly, Go Run 8, etc...

Also tend to use new ones for races, then use the older ones for long runs

Say what you want, but they keep me fresh and injury free for long runs. Most of the time I would balk at paying 100$ more for shoes but in this case they are the real deal and ive tried enough bad long run shoes to know (rincons fail, beacons fail, reebok, etc...)

I have noticed personally with the next% ..... do at least 6 solid runs to break them in a bit and get the lacing dialed. They have so much cushion you might want to get a a feel for it.

I have run four 1/2 marathon efforts and another 4 workouts of 15 miles in mine and they still feel race ready so they seem very durable. I would guess I have 120 miles in them. I have a new pair waiting, but I prefer the pair with 120 miles.

I only race in mine, but that's because I have weak unstable ankles, and the high drop and bounce of the shoe is very hard on my ankles. So I train in the Adios, and then swap to the VF/Next for racing.

Funny thing is - my training paces in the Adios match my races in the VF/Next.

This doesn't make much sense. Once I heard a guy reasoning that training in 4% would make you weaker because you would have less stress on your body. Both your and that guy's reasoning is flawed because when you train you run by effort not by pace. It's just that it's being much easier on your legs allowing for faster recovery after workouts. I started doing all my runs in 4% about 3 months ago. Few weeks ago I PRed in 5k and 10k. I've one pair for training runs (easy, tempos, intervals) and another one for racing. Training pair have accumulated about 700 miles now and still feels very nice on my feet though the difference vs. racing pair is significant. Racing pair has only about 25 miles on the odometer. Since doing all my runs in 4% I've naturally upped my mileage a bit. My post workout day recovery runs feel much more tolerable now and overall my legs are feeling much better. Previously I had to regularly massage my legs after workouts but now it's way more less problems with stiff muscles.

qw wrote:

This doesn't make much sense. Once I heard a guy reasoning that training in 4% would make you weaker because you would have less stress on your body. Both your and that guy's reasoning is flawed because when you train you run by effort not by pace. It's just that it's being much easier on your legs allowing for faster recovery after workouts.

It's quite possible my reasoning is off. Then again, I can't verify that I recover faster from a race in the Next%, either. I felt great during the race itself and ran a big PR, but after two days off and three days of short jogs at slow recovery pace, I can still feel the after-effects of my race. So this recovery seems pretty much on par with previous HM races. I suspect that the extra cushioning helps with cumulative tissue damage during the race, but I'm not bouncing back as quickly as I would have expected.

Whatever happened to the old days of running:

-Wear heavy, ugly shoes for pretty much all of your training. Maybe have a pair of light flats for intervals

-Put on your new, shiny racing shoes for race day. Shoes are like half the weight of what you've been training in, so you run fast. Then put them back in the box.

I don't know what people have to look forward to on race day when they race in the same gear they've been training in all along.

Suffering training runs day in day out for years due to wearing heavy unresponsive shoes doesn't do much good because you hate the training as every step day after workout is mental. I was training that way 5 years ago on much less mileage and quality but eventually I understood that I need to feel good through my training runs as well. So at first I switched to lightweight Asics Hyperspeeds and that made my training much more tolerable as I could do a light run day after workout instead of taking day off. When I switched to 4% few months ago I started a new life as I started to enjoy easy runs when previously I mostly hated them

UA Runner wrote:

Whatever happened to the old days of running:

-Wear heavy, ugly shoes for pretty much all of your training. Maybe have a pair of light flats for intervals

-Put on your new, shiny racing shoes for race day. Shoes are like half the weight of what you've been training in, so you run fast. Then put them back in the box.

I don't know what people have to look forward to on race day when they race in the same gear they've been training in all along.