I want to run a 1:51 800 as a 40 year old.

Leaky Ball Joint wrote:

Is it possible? Can anyone else do this, or have you done this in the past?

How do I know I'm ready?

I have one year to train.

I'm not looking for naysayers. I'm looking for advice and info.

1:45

@ 53 years old

Is it possible?

My body looks like Jerry Garcia, but im going to train super hard.

If I train well and stop eating ice cream and take lots of T can I do it?

What about EPO, should I take that?

Right now, my mile pr is 7:30 and my quarter is down to 80 seconds.

After I finish my pancakes and eggs I'm heading down to the club to do sone crossfit

Wish me luck!

Leaky Ball Joint wrote:

Is it possible? Can anyone else do this, or have you done this in the past?

How do I know I'm ready?

I have one year to train.

I'm not looking for naysayers. I'm looking for advice and info.

Unless you have the talent of Rudisha or Lagat, with one year of training it is not possible. The people that was able to pull this out had a long history of running at Elite or sub-elite level before turning 40.

To provide some perspective, according to Master Rankings, nobody has run sub 1:52 at age 40 last year. Last year, 2:00 was sufficient to get into the top 25 in the world and you would have been going for gold at the USA master championships.

Having said this, I will second what other have suggested: try running for a couple of weeks, do some strides and some 200-300 repeats and then take 2 days of rest and go for a 400 all-out. If you can run in the low 50s, you may have some untapped talent. If you can break 60, with a year of training you may be able to run 2:0X, and this would already be impressive.

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

Possible for someone age 39 and still capable of a 400m all out at around 50 sec . If you can do that you will reach 1:51 on one stipulation; You hire me as your personal coach :)

Bram Som is 39

40 in Feb. Can run 500m at 50 pace and probably a paced 1:47 now.

Michael Stember personally told me in January of this year that he was training to run a 1:48 800, which I believe is a WR for a Masters runner. He turned 41 on January 30th, 2019. He thinks it's possible because he knows how to train for it now, and he's also lighter than he was when he ran a 1:46.2 at Stanford. I have no idea how his training has gone since.

The world record is 1:48 by Johnny Gray. And it was run indoors.

There's truth in what Stember said (if in fact he actually said that). As you get older you get a deeper understanding of the event, and you also get a healthier perspective on how to train. BUT you can only go as far as your body will allow, and for most master's runners the body slows them up or stops them completely much more often. Stember might be training for it, and I'm sure he has a better chance than most, but ultimately it's kind of a dice roll. Same goes for Som or any other 40 year old former elite. There's a reason you only see a few sub 1:55s each year at the 40+ age groups. It's damn hard to do at that age! I mean, I bet there are only a couple dozen people who have ever done it.

The body has a very hard time sustaining the level of intensity required for the 800 because it's an extremely stressful event. Same goes for any sprint at 40+, but I think the 800 is probably the most taxing because you need the aerobic conditioning (which isn't so bad on its own), but then you have to add the anaerobic training on top of an already stressed body. It's a lot to handle.

My bad. World record is Whiteman at 1:48.05

American record is Gray's indoor time at 1:48.81

Only 13 Americans have ever run under 1:55 in the 800 after the age of 40.

7 British runners have managed it.

43 people total in history.

The list did not differentiate between indoor and outdoor times.

9/10 well done trolling.

Run the right long run for you. Run some good 400 repeats but what has been best based on personal experience is the 200 repeats: 2 with 2 like 10 or more. And to rest or have easy active days whenever needed. I didn't need much rest at 40. That started for me at 48 needing to be more careful with the right amount of training to hit a goal and how much rest I got.

This is possible but only because 800 meter times decline less with age IF you train as an 800 meter specialist. That means split 400s, 200 meters at 1500 meter pace, 40 seconds rest, 200 meters at 800-1500 meter pace. It's ok if you run a little slower it's about consistently training at either less than 60 percent heart rate or 90 percent or more. The 800 is a maximal heart rate test and that will decline with age. But it's also a test of running economy and with strength training plus training at race pace plus mileage at much less than race pace this doesn't have to decline. I recommend doing your low intensity runs on trails so you can get strength at the same time. Even hiking is good for masters runners, push press and trap bar deadlift should cover you on weight training but a full on Olympic lifting it powerlifting routine wouldn't hurt either.

YMMV wrote:

That apparent slowing from M45 to 50 is because Tony Whiteman is still a few years from 50. The statistically smoothed equivalent of 1:49 at 45 is 1:53 at 50. That is what we can expect from Tony in a few years. There is no magic stepped dropoff at certain age for the population at large, just a steady declining curve.

The # 10 world time for M45 last year was 2:01; for M50 it was 2:04.

And then Lagat is coming behind him

Of course it’s possible. Ease up the pace of your normal runs, keep fresh so you can run hard quality speedwork. LOTS of stretching, rolling, and def do strengthening (think quads, glutes, hips...for injury prevention). Drake relays masters record is a 1:53:xx by Kip Janvrin at 43 or 44 and I’m sure there are plenty of other examples in that range. And just for the record, the 50+ record is 1:58...for the time being...whoever said they ran 1:50 as a 50-something...I gotta call BS on that one. Good luck. Btw....see you on the track next spring. That 1:58 has gotta go....

YMMV wrote:

That apparent slowing from M45 to 50 is because Tony Whiteman is still a few years from 50. The statistically smoothed equivalent of 1:49 at 45 is 1:53 at 50. That is what we can expect from Tony in a few years. There is no magic stepped dropoff at certain age for the population at large, just a steady declining curve.

The # 10 world time for M45 last year was 2:01; for M50 it was 2:04.

+1

Tony Whiteman has apparently retired. There would appear to be a great opportunity in the next few years for someone to grab that M50 record. (at least until Bernard B Sample Lagat runs 1:50 or something).

It is certainly a tough ask, all the guys who ran under 1.52 had a good pedigree to start with. The British record was held by Pete Browne who had run 1.46.2, i thought Johnny Gray's 1.48.8 was unattainable considering the legend he is. I think a lot of negative comments come from the reaction those who make these big statements to get attention, fall well short and no one calls them out. Sub4 attempts, fast 800s and so on.

If you really want some idea of what you need to be capable of to run these times, in Feb 2012 I ran Armagh 5k on the Thursday in 14.28 and then 1.52 800 in Nationals on the Saturday. I knew then my speed and endurance were well placed to run some decent times in the Summer.

Good Luck

TW

2345888 wrote:

My bad. World record is Whiteman at 1:48.05

American record is Gray's indoor time at 1:48.81

Only 13 Americans have ever run under 1:55 in the 800 after the age of 40.

7 British runners have managed it.

43 people total in history.

The list did not differentiate between indoor and outdoor times.

Your knowledge is good. Here is the all time 40+ performer 800 meter list to under 1:53 that I have. Most list on the internet have a few marks missing. My list was formed from all that can be found on the WWW. This may help the OP see the rarity of achieving his goal....

1:48.05 Anthony Whiteman (GBR)...……………...life PR 1:45.81

1:48.81i (1:52.40 out) Johnny Gray (USA)...…….life PR1:42.60

1:50.34 Jim Sorensen (USA)...…………....life PR 1:47.24

1:50.69 Colm Ratherty (IRE)…………..….life PR 1:50.69

1:51.25 Peter Browne (GBR) ……………..life PR1:46.21

1:51.38 Sebastian Schletterer……………...life PR 1:48.37

1:51.52 Ronal Mercilina (NED)…………….life PR?????

1:51.56 Robert McCubbin (AUS)…………..life PR 1:51.56??

1:52.41 Carlos Cabral (POR)…………….......life PR 1:47.33

1:52. 42i Vyacheslav Shabunin (RUS)…….life PR 1:47.00

1:52.59 Tony Young (USA)……………..…….life PR 1:48.79

1:52.5h Ken Popejoy (USA)…………………..life PR 1:47.3h

1:52.70 Darrell Maynard (GBR)….……….life PR 1:49.79??

1:52.77 Babacar Niang (FRA)………………..life PR 1:44.70

1:52.86 Steve Scott (USA)……………………...life PR 1:45.05

1:52.97 Bruno Anicet (FRA)…………………...life PR ???

You said 7 British runners have run under 1:55. I only have 5, the three above plus Ron Bell 1:53.5h and Dave Taylor 1:54.06. What two might I be missing? I have an unconfirmed Charllie Thurstan at 1:53.30...Do you have this mark on your list? If this is confirmed I have 6

Also 13 Americans. I only have 11, the 5 above plus Anselm Lebourne 1:53.22, Sal Allah 1:53.71, Kip Janvrin 1:53.89, John Hinto 1:54.51, William Wuyke 1:54.96i, and George Cohen 1:54.9h. What two might I be missing? I have an unconfirmed Nolan Smith at 1:53.99....Do you have this mark on your list? If this is confirmed, I have 12

sub4@40 wrote:

It is certainly a tough ask, all the guys who ran under 1.52 had a good pedigree to start with. The British record was held by Pete Browne who had run 1.46.2, i thought Johnny Gray's 1.48.8 was unattainable considering the legend he is. I think a lot of negative comments come from the reaction those who make these big statements to get attention, fall well short and no one calls them out. Sub4 attempts, fast 800s and so on.

If you really want some idea of what you need to be capable of to run these times, in Feb 2012 I ran Armagh 5k on the Thursday in 14.28 and then 1.52 800 in Nationals on the Saturday. I knew then my speed and endurance were well placed to run some decent times in the Summer.

Good Luck

TW

TW- I know it's a while off, but do you think you might take a swing at the M50 record?

Not sure if access is allowed without paying so here's the 13 Americans and the 7 Brits:

Johnny Gray 1:48.81, 2001

Jim Sorenson 1:50.34, 2007

Tony Young 1:52.59, 2003

Ken Popajoy 1:52.5h, 1991

Steve Scott 1:52.86, 1997

Anselm Lebourne 1:53.22, 2000

Joshua Slamka 1:53.62, 2019

Sal Allah 1:53.71, 2001

Kip Janvrin 1:53.89, 2007

John Hinton 1:54.51, 2006

Tony Blue 1:54.8h, 1977

Noel Clough 1:54.8h, 1977

George Cohen 1:54.9h, 1980

Tony Whiteman 1:48.05, 2014

Peter Browne 1:51.25, 1991

Darrell Maynard 1:52.70, 2002

Charlie Thurstan 1:53.30, 2017

Ron Bell 1:53.5h, 1987

Dave Taylor 1:54.06, 2006

Paul Grange 1:54.9h, 2019

Crosscheck with that. I have a feeling there were at least a few from the 60s that have been lost forever. I can't imagine some of the greats from the early 50 not hopping in a race at the age of 40 and popping off a 1:54. Tom Courtney was a 1:46 880y runner and world record holder, or even Peter Snell (1:44 ). I can't imagine Snell not hopping in an 800 somewhere and jogging a sub 1:55. Both are still alive and well as far as I know, so it'd be interesting to ask them about any masters races they may have run.

No plans yet but that is not a no!! When i was running sub 1.50 each season i was able to enjoy the BMC races, National Champs and British League and be competitive which was my drive, the records were secondary. I would feel less comfortable with running in Open meets and racing U17s !! Might just be my Ego getting in the way!!

sub4@40 wrote:

No plans yet but that is not a no!! When i was running sub 1.50 each season i was able to enjoy the BMC races, National Champs and British League and be competitive which was my drive, the records were secondary. I would feel less comfortable with running in Open meets and racing U17s !! Might just be my Ego getting in the way!!

tony, one more world record in the masters category and seeing your own name on top of the m50 rankings will boost your ego, i guess. nothing wrong with outkicking the youth.