JNathletics wrote:
Said Aouita had the best range
Personal best(s)
800m: 1:43.86 Choge 1:44
1500m: 3:29.46 Choge 3:29.47
Mile: 3:46.76
3000m: 7:29.45 Choge: 7:28
2-mile: 8:13.45
5000m: 12:58.39 Choge: 12:53
10,000m: 27:26.11
HM: Choge 59:26
Aouita defeat-a. No way does 27:26 guy go sub 60 in a HM; 59.26 guy easily beats 27:26.
OP you don't join the sub 13 club with a 13 flat.
Bad Wigins wrote:
JNathletics wrote:
Said Aouita had the best range
Personal best(s)
800m: 1:43.86 Choge 1:44
1500m: 3:29.46 Choge 3:29.47
Mile: 3:46.76
3000m: 7:29.45 Choge: 7:28
2-mile: 8:13.45
5000m: 12:58.39 Choge: 12:53
10,000m: 27:26.11
HM: Choge 59:26
Aouita defeat-a. No way does 27:26 guy go sub 60 in a HM; 59.26 guy easily beats 27:26.
OP you don't join the sub 13 club with a 13 flat.
If Choge ran that half in the shoes available to Aouita he would not have run sub 60. Also Moen has run sub 60 and recently ran a pr of 27:24.
Sad sad sad wrote:
Runningart2004 wrote:
30 yr old on the downslope of their athletic career who has slowed at every distance over the last 5 yrs all of a sudden runs a huge PR.....Somehow someone with elite genetics and has been training at an elite level for what...10-15 yrs?...somehow the new training is the "secret".
You all are naive little fools.
Just accept the doping and move on. Every other major sport has, regardless of the headline.
Alan
And you are a sad little man.
For the first time he has actually been doing 5k type training. He has never tried a 5k before this late in the season. His 13:20 was early season. You throw the 3:52 out like that was a horrible race, he had only recently started doing workouts and was quite happy with the result. The June 3:52 for him was really a May effort. I was also at the race the conditions were perfect, crowd amazing pacin was good after a bit clunky first coupe laps.
What a said group letsrun is, bash them when runners run slow, bash them when they run fast...
I'm not bashing anyone. I just accept the truth and enjoy the show.
An elite athlete with elite genetics and elite training who is clean will never beat one who is using PEDs.
How does accepting the PED usage in a sport lesson your enjoyment? It surely doesn't in the big sports.
PEDs have a part of sport for decades.
Alan
Alan when are you going to go away? You have no proof of anything and yet you want us to accept you as some higher authority on all this?
enjoy the show
enjoy the show
enjoy the show
enjoy the show
enjoy the show
douche
Probably a troll but...
You do realize he is a 2x WC medalist?
You do realize he has a 4th at the Olympics to go with a victory?
You do realize what level of talent it takes to close ANY race in 50.x, right?
As another thread notes: how many have run 1:44, 3:30, 13:00? Not a long list.
Take away his olympic race and he is still top 10 in the world this decade. Add it in and it’s clear he’s top 5.
As someone who ran with and against Matt in high school and saw the hard work and talent it takes to get there, it really bugs me when people try to act like he “got lucky”. You don’t just luck your way to an Olympic gold medal in T&F, no matter the circumstances.
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
WhatwouldRossthink wrote:
Centro running 13 flat for 5k is........well if it sounds to good to be true it probably is. What performance has he displayed in the last 6 months that would indicate he could just come out and drop a time like that? What about the track? The shoes? something doesn't seem right.
What indicates it? He changed the coach in Jan 2019 from Salazar to Schumacher. Schumacher has brought many athletes in BTC from national elite to world class. Jager/Lomong/Hill and don't even get me started with the women. Training more frequently with Lomong and co is also very helpful. And it was a fast race, most 5k races are slow by default because no one wants to push the pace and everyone is just running for the win. This was a time-trial, no one cared about who wins it was all about getting them to the fastest time possible which happened with 2 13:00 and one 12:58.
We do know Centro is very talented and has a deadly kick.
Centro has not medaled under Schu, he has not won anything of note under Schu.
The new strength work and running 5k's may take Centro to the next level and maybe gain him another shot at a medal.
We do know Centro is very talented and has a deadly kick.
Centro has not medaled under Schu, he has not won anything of note under Schu.
The new strength work and running 5k's may take Centro to the next level and maybe gain him another shot at a medal.[/quote]
Maybe he hasn't won much of note or medaled because he's literally run one championship? And he came into that championship with a recent injury
Choge ran in the EPO era (1991-present); Aouita did not.
Choge never won a World outdoor or Olympic medal because he had to compete against other EPO era runners.
Aouita won four World outdoor and Olympic medals, two of them gold.
Aouita's name will be remembered. Choge's will not.
That's a fact.
tally wrote:
Choge ran in the EPO era (1991-present); Aouita did not.
Choge never won a World outdoor or Olympic medal because he had to compete against other EPO era runners.
Aouita won four World outdoor and Olympic medals, two of them gold.
Aouita's name will be remembered. Choge's will not.
That's a fact.
Aouita forced an athlete he coached to take PEDs because he believed you can't compete without them. Fact.
Choge did not wrote:
tally wrote:
Choge ran in the EPO era (1991-present); Aouita did not.
Choge never won a World outdoor or Olympic medal because he had to compete against other EPO era runners.
Aouita won four World outdoor and Olympic medals, two of them gold.
Aouita's name will be remembered. Choge's will not.
That's a fact.
Aouita forced an athlete he coached to take PEDs because he believed you can't compete without them. Fact.
That was probably his way of saying nobody can do what I did clean without help.
The Greatest wrote:
Choge did not wrote:
Aouita forced an athlete he coached to take PEDs because he believed you can't compete without them. Fact.
That was probably his way of saying nobody can do what I did clean without help.
Yeah. That's gotta be it. It's totally normal for clean athletes to soil their reputation by forcing other athletes to take drugs. Nothing to see there.
1500 and mile times are useless as these races aren't run for time but to win and often have bad pacing. He could run much faster over the 1500 in a time-trial style race.
So could any other runner. If Centro was winning these slow races you'd have a point, but the dude has hardly won anything. He seemed to be on his way out after Rio and certainly hasn't looked like a medal contender given how poorly he's performed in the Diamond League over the last few years. Now he drops a 13:00 out of nowhere because "he did more strength training." Yep, nothing to see here.
AaLnAaNl wrote:
Alan when are you going to go away? You have no proof of anything and yet you want us to accept you as some higher authority on all this?
enjoy the show
enjoy the show
enjoy the show
enjoy the show
enjoy the show
douche
+1
Ironically runningart2004 is the one who can't "enjoy the show" because he has to throw baseless, unnecessary drug accusations into training discussions.
If you want to let people "enjoy the show" then just GTFO and let them talk about the other aspects of Centro's training.
Centro beat Farah in the 1500m the following year early before injury.
I think this was the race:
2017 3:33.41 Los Angeles, CA (USA) 18 MAY 2017
He has only been healthy this year and not all of this year. I don't see this 13 flat as a huge step up from his previous early season 13:20 only because this one is in perfect conditions shortly before championships with ideal pace-setting. Nevertheless, the much greater volume training accounts for maybe 8-10 seconds of that 20 second improvement.
You have to understand that Jerry has his boys doing something like 12k of repeats in one of two sessions every week to go with long tempos and much longer long runs, so that has to have improved Centro's endurance a lot. Salazar was having them hit a lot faster but shorter workouts, great for the kick but emphasizing under-distance speed, not over-distance endurance quite as much for Centro.
I'm surprised to not see El G on that list.
Choge did not wrote:
Aouita forced an athlete he coached to take PEDs because he believed you can't compete without them. Fact.
Athletes of every era have used the PEDs that were available to them. EPO was a game changer for the level of performance that an athlete of a given talent level could reach.
tally wrote:
Choge did not wrote:
Aouita forced an athlete he coached to take PEDs because he believed you can't compete without them. Fact.
Athletes of every era have used the PEDs that were available to them. EPO was a game changer for the level of performance that an athlete of a given talent level could reach.
Athletes of Aouita's era could use as many steroids as they wanted because there was no out of competition testing. Look where Aouita's career went after 1988.
A lot of elites from when Choge started made similar exits after epo testing and the bio passport. But Choge's still right there at the top.
But going just by times, there is no comparison. The only major event where Aouita's ahead is the 800; at 1500 they are virtually tied, and Choge dominates everything above that. Nobody in their right mind doubts he would easily beat 27:26 if the 10,000 were still an event worth running.
Bad Wigins wrote:
JNathletics wrote:
Said Aouita had the best range
Personal best(s)
800m: 1:43.86 Choge 1:44
1500m: 3:29.46 Choge 3:29.47
Mile: 3:46.76
3000m: 7:29.45 Choge: 7:28
2-mile: 8:13.45
5000m: 12:58.39 Choge: 12:53
10,000m: 27:26.11
HM: Choge 59:26
Aouita defeat-a. No way does 27:26 guy go sub 60 in a HM; 59.26 guy easily beats 27:26.
OP you don't join the sub 13 club with a 13 flat.
Ryan Hall:
10000m: 28:07
HM: 59:43
Bad Wigins wrote:
tally wrote:
Athletes of every era have used the PEDs that were available to them. EPO was a game changer for the level of performance that an athlete of a given talent level could reach.
Athletes of Aouita's era could use as many steroids as they wanted because there was no out of competition testing. Look where Aouita's career went after 1988.
A lot of elites from when Choge started made similar exits after epo testing and the bio passport. But Choge's still right there at the top.
But going just by times, there is no comparison. The only major event where Aouita's ahead is the 800; at 1500 they are virtually tied, and Choge dominates everything above that. Nobody in their right mind doubts he would easily beat 27:26 if the 10,000 were still an event worth running.
His ‘89 season was excellent, capped by the historic first sub-7:30 3000m WR.
Age and injury caught up with him in ‘90, ending his reign of domination.
Why would you go just by times for two guys that are a generation apart? That would be like comparing Aouita’s times to somebody that was running in the mid-1950s through early 1960s. Just a flawed comparison.
persona polifacética wrote:
Bad Wigins wrote:
Aouita defeat-a. No way does 27:26 guy go sub 60 in a HM; 59.26 guy easily beats 27:26.
OP you don't join the sub 13 club with a 13 flat.
Ryan Hall:
10000m: 28:07
HM: 59:43
Hall NEVER focused on the 10000, he was capable of MUCH FASTER than 28:07
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