Road Racing and Training Thread, Week Ending September 1, 2019

"GT. I see your post is high on excuses and low on mileage. I like my chances in November..." -runrincerepeat

Starting 11 weeks to the Hoosier Hustle

M - 6mi

T - 9mi AM including 7x1000m in 3:30, 3:31, 3:36, 3:33, 3:31, 3:31, 3:30 with ~2:05-2:10 rests to slowly get back to the start line. Planned 8 but my calf was tightening up during the 7th recovery and decided it wasn't worth pushing it this early. -- 5mi PM

W - 7mi

T - 9mi AM including continuous alternations of 6x(400m 'on' / 1200m 'float'). Averaged 5:54 'on' and 6:38 'float'. Pace waned a bit on the last couple floats but I'm generally happy with it given the context. -- 5mi PM

F - 10mi

S - 8mi

S - 12mi including 10mi progression from 7:45 to 6:15.

Total - 71mi

Good week, but still a long way to go.

Male, 34, 5’10” 160 lbs

PRs:

16:03 5K (2011)

1:14:12 HM (2011)

2:56:47 Marathon (2016)

Recent:

17:30 5K (2019)

1:25:28 HM (2019)

4:39 1500m (2019)

Next Goal: Lower 5K recent time by November

Week 8

M: 65 minutes

T: 45 minutes easy + 2 x 200m in 34sec

W: 70 minutes easy

R: 80 minutes easy

F: 70 minutes easy + 2 x 200m in 34 sec

Sa: 5K race

Su: 80 minutes easy

The long weekend is helping me catch up to things but still haven’t been able to read through the thread’s race results. Pappy I hand over the leaderboard to you!

The 5K race yesterday was great! 17:31 for 2nd overall. I had the lead several times jockeying with another guy including with 400 to go. I knew I had to go early to try and break him but as it turns out he was not redlining like I was and was able to kick past me. Still the 42 year old helped push me throughout the race and this 5K is the fastest I’ve run during a build-up period than in previous cycles. Splits were 5:27/5:39/5:42. All my miles in training have been 10:30-11 min pace except for strides lol

Good morning!

=== 8/26/19 - 9/1/19: 95.7 miles ===

> Mon - 17.11 miles

#1 (5:49): 12.09 miles @7:36

#2 (10:54): 5.02 miles @8:06

> Tue - 17.35 miles

#1 (5:45): 13.64 miles @7:31, 800, 2x400, 4x200, (400, 400, 200 jog between)

2:21

70, 68

33, 32, 34, 32

#2 (12:04): 3.71 miles @8:06

> Wed - 14.13 miles

#1 (5:52): 10.12 miles @7:56

#2 (10:54): 4.01 miles @8:02

> Thu - 14.15 miles

#1 (5:48): 10.15 miles @6:48, 4 mile tempo

5:42 avg

5:48, 5:45, 5:41, 5:33

#2 (10:57): 4.00 miles @8:00

> Fri - 12.04 miles

#1 (5:50): 8.04 miles @7:49

#2 (10:56): 4.00 miles @7:56

> Sat - 16.07 miles

#1 (5:05): 16.07 miles @6:40, w/ 8 miles @MP

5:57 avg

6:03, 6:01, 5:58, 5:55, 5:54, 5:57, 5:57, 5:51

> Sun - 4.87 miles

#1 (6:20): 4.87 miles @7:51, w/ 6x hill sprints

> Notes

Pretty happy with this week. All of the quality days felt fantastic and were great confidence boosters. The 4 mile tempo was over 10 seconds faster on average than 6 weeks ago, and at an easier, more controlled effort. The MP run was the longest yet and I have a good feeling I can continue to extend. Looking forward to the 5th ave mile, would like to somewhat plan next week around that but will see how things go since my priorities are still definitely Staten Half / NYCM!

Wow awesome 5K TDR! Must be doing strides and easy running very right to be able to crank that out in build-up!

GT- looks promising

TDR- hammering

J. Quill- I’m in the twilight of my running journey... I may just sneak out of the game in time to avoid getting owned by you in races! keep up the great training

R3- best start hammering young man

stat- good luck at the race!

m38, 10 weeks to 2:29@Indy Monumental

m- 8.5/4.5

*t- 22 with 12@6:55 and last 10@5:55

w- 9.5/4.5

th- 10.5+hill sprints/5.5

*f- AM- 4x2 mile, avg. 10:57, 2’ recovery

s- 10/5

su- 10

110

Unremarkable, but I’ll take it. 5:55 is a ways from 5:43, but it felt right as far as effort on Tuesday. I’m getting pretty close to race weight, and if I can win this local 5k tomorrow I’ll be equipped with a pair of next%.

#of non-workout runs faster than 8:15 pace- 0

485 miles in August. First five weeks of the build are done. These next four will be the hardest as I’ll have a lot less time and it needs to get real in terms of the marathon specific work.

sub 6- i like a slight down week about 6 weeks out. Awhile back I read something that Haile G wrote about doing that. I tried it and like the way it shapes the arc of the training and helps me time the peak.

Male, 41, 5’11”, mid to high 170s

PRs: 16:43 (2019) 1:17:24 (2019), 2:47:00 (2018)

Goal race: California International Marathon (12/8/19)

Goal time: TBD

M - 12km (4:53). HR 131. Beautiful cool, crisp morning.

T - 16.8km (4:38). HR 155. 20:00 easy, 20 x (1:00 on / 1:00 off), 17:50 easy.

Averaged 4:12/km overall for the fartlek (6:45/mi).

W - 16.1km. (5:07). HR 147. Pacing Mrs. Stone’s workout. Including 6 mile tempo at a little faster than marathon effort (4:45/km, 7:39/mi).

Th - Rest. First day off in 18 days since starting back.

F - 12km (4:57). HR 162. Did this in high sun. Didn’t feel that easy, just wanted to finish it and be done. Funny how the HR knew “the story.”

Sa - 17.2km (5:11). HR 147. Pacing Mrs. Stone’s workout. Was scheduled for 3 miles / 2 miles / 1 mile at HME off .5 mile / .25 mile recovery jogs. Ended up doing a little over 5 miles of total quality averaging 7:18/mi. Mrs. Stone had to stop a few times because of a bad side stitch.

Su - 24km (4:52). HR 153. Lots of Philly hills. Lemon Hill, Lansdowne, Belmont, Fountain Glen, Strawberry Mansion, etc.

Weekly Total: 98.1 km

Year to Date: 1940 km

Another good building week for me. I was happy with Tuesday’s fartlek and very pleased with today’s long run. Today I had the pleasure of meeting and running with angryjohnny’s friend, Justin, who moved to Philly earlier this year. Haven’t had my own long run partner in several years.

Once I start losing these extra 5-7 pounds I am carrying right now, I’ll be in an even better spot.

Hope everyone else had a great week.

Mrs. Stone’s week:

Female, 44, 5’6”, not allowed to divulge weight (of course she’s fit, but never fit enough in her mind)

PRs: 21:20 (2017, 2019), 1:36:43 (2019), 3:31:40 (2019)

Next race: Philadelphia Rock ‘n’ Roll HM (9/15/19)

Goal time: 1:35:xx

Goal race: California International Marathon (12/8/19)

Goal time: sub 3:25:00

M - 6 miles (10:26)

T - 8.5 miles (9:13). Including pacing her slower friend’s workout: 5 x 1 mile moderate off .25 mile recovery jogs. 8:38/average.

W - 10 miles (8:16). Including 6 mile tempo at a little faster than marathon effort (7:39).

Th - 6+ miles (9:58)

F -8 miles (9:13). Strides.

Sa - 10.7 miles (8:21). Broken workout. Had scheduled 3 miles / 2 miles / 1 mile at HM effort off .5 mile / .25 mile recovery jogs. Ended up getting in a little over 5 miles of total quality at 7:18/mile average because of a side stitch.

Su - 9 miles (9:27).

Weekly Total: 59 miles

Year to Date: 1,668 miles

Two more weeks to the HM. It’s a shame that the last two HM workouts have had physical issues (wrenched back, side stitches). Regardless, I keep reminding Mrs. Stone that she still put in 240 miles for August and is in great aerobic shape. As long as she physically feels 100% and has good weather on race day, she’ll be fine. And no matter the result, the real target is CIM.

Male, 51 yo, 5’7”, 129 lbs

Goals: Dec 15 - Taipei Marathon - sub 3:10

Upcoming Races: Oct 6 - 10k; Nov 3 - HM

Daniels 2Q Week 16

Y’all don’t need the ugly details.

I’m doing the best I can with the weather and my most demanding work schedule in several years... hell... EVER. I’m playing a bit fast and loose with calling my training Daniels 2Q because I’m really just using the scheds as a guideline and the Vdot as an MSRP (manufacturer’s suggested retail pace). My mileage may vary. All that said, the numbers don’t look as ugly as I expected. I feel like I’ve matured so much as a runner these past few years (yeah, it’s about time). I get some things. I understand my body so well now, it’s scary. I could win bar bets wagering on what my HR is at any given moment. With just under 4 months before my goal race, I predict another PR. That’s with all those caveats about staying healthy and the good lord willing and the wife letting me buy vaporflys and the creek not rising.

I’m watching y’all totally nailing it... redefining the next level on your realistic expectations... it’s inspiring. Let’s all get after it!!!

TDR: Much appreciation for your work on the age graded tables. It was a good idea in conception and well done in execution. I look at it every week.

Pappy: I have 2 months left on my AG score... with a 10k in the interim. Hope I’ll be notifying you to move me north...

Male, 15

PRs : 16:17, 34:38

Goal - Sub 34 on October 13

Mon:

AM: 6km

PM: 5km + strides

Tue:

3 x 5km, 3 mins rest (18:09, 17:55, 17:38)

Wed:

AM: Gym

PM: 5km

Thu:

AM: 3km, 5x200m, 5x100m, 3km

PM: 5km

Fri:

AM: 10x800m, 1 min rest (2:38 avg.)

PM: 5km

Sat:

AM: 16km

PM: 5km

Sun:

5km, 6 strides, 5km

Real nice week. Felt very easy on the 800s. Tried something I saw on Kipchoge's Instagram where he said smiling while in pain makes it a lot easier. Great tip, totally loosened me during the latter stages of the track sessions. Hope everyone's had a great week.

True motivation comes from within.

RRR 6ft 167-170 depending on the morning this week.

My week was the last of the transition and was just meh. Time to get the mileage up some.

58 miles.

Workout Tuesday

8 including 2xmile w 90s rest 5:53-5:47 jog and then 2x 1/4 at 75 w 400 jog. All on road.

Friday lunch 5 including .3 and 5:29 pace. Just wanted some turnover before sat morn tri split. Which fell thru so raced 7 hours later and it sucked. 18:13.

Rest just mileage. Did get in a good 15 miler this morning which isn’t my longest distance run of the year w all the injuries etc. so that’s a decent start.

Which is my longest*.

Wish was a way to edit a post.

49m 5'11/189

Worked way to much and felt like heck the first part of the week from racing. Broke one of the rules in my training plan but it gave me a lot of validation that the training is working. 6 weeks ago said goodbye to 200, yesterday said so long to the 190's. Decided to change my weight goal to sub170. Going to switch my diet too, to a diet that helps improve T levels. Running goal is still sub 20 5k but that is a B goal now.

M-F walked 1-2 miles a day after work, DIY yoga 3 times, a bunch of other light ancillary work.

Sa 10x300, 12x200, 6x100 @ 6:20ish pace I'm guessing. Didn't wear a watch and just ran them to feel like a threshold workout.

Su 2 mile run, 35 mile bike.

Leaderboard

Bird502 92.88% (HM...1:03:41)

Coyote Montane 92.88%(8K...28:19)

statfanatic 91.64% (1 mi...4:03)

Urban Diesel 90.59% (3K...9:29)

Smoove 89.32% (Marathon...2:30:44)

Runn3grl123 87.46% (5K...16:53)

Bdubs 86.93% (5K...15:26)

LongWayFromHome 86.91% (5K...14:31)

krishna 85.27% (3K...8:38)

outsiderunner 85.18% (5K...17:19)

GNR1 84.86% (5K...15:38)

th3bt 84.62% (10K...34:21)

Jewbacca 84.43% (10K...32:13)

darkwave 84.23% (10 miler...1:02:28)

slow-twitch 83.68% (5K...16:02)

Andy Dufresne 83.56% (HM..1:10:54)

th3bt 83.4% (10K...35:23)

Napper 83.1% (4 mile...22:41)

HHH 82.66% (5K...15:30)

Bruin1996 82.62% (10K...34:37)

Stone Cutter 82.55% (5K...16:43)

Sub 6:00 82.41% (5K...16:01)

Allen 82.39% (5K...19:13)

team1 80.09% (Marathon...2:40:11)

pewow 80.07% (1 mile...4:38)

3283823 79.88% (10K...34:38)

angryjohnny 79.26% (HM...1:15:17)

runrincerepeat 78.88% (5K...16:44)

Still Improving 78.75% (Marathon...2:57:06)

hantph96 78.56% (5K...16:33)

Gordon Tremeshko 78.47% (5K...16:34)

DietBacon 77.85%(10K...34:19)

Guy Broman 77.6% (5K...16:49)

LancRunner 76.98% (5K...17:14)

Jot quill 76.41% (10K...34:58)

RunnerSam 76.16% (5K...16:56)

Coach Jeff 76.03% (5K...19:24)

Jeremy 75.65% (5K...17:15)

Tall dark roast 75.43% (5K...17:30)

dirtroadSC 75.02% (5K...18:17)

MikeG83 74.95% (5K...17:42)

Working Harder 73.87% (HM..1:21:50)

NYCHalf 72.76% (HM...1:20:16)

RunJaymes 72.53% (10 miler...60:40)

James Corden 71.53% (5K...18:09)

BHViking 70.94% (HM...1:25:52)

Cocoon 70.65% (10K...39:14)

Runningforfun 68.93% (HM...1:25:57)

RunGuy Midwest 68.62 %(Marathon...2:59:10)

KidB 68.38% (HM...1:25:23)

SOBO 67.1% (10K...39:49)

PutoMiudo 67.02% (10K...39:52)

LebanonHills 65.72% (Marathon...3:08:34)

JamesTheAmateur 64.24% (800m...2:37.4)

going faster miles an hour 64.14% (5K...21:59)

*If you want to be included on this list, Age Grade your performance at any distance within the last year. Copy and Paste results and repost. If your performance has expired or has been recorded here inaccurately, please remove it. It will only be as good as your honesty and integrity.

slo - A buck ten is not unremarkable. Nice week, my friend. Cannot wait to see what you throw down at Indy. Rooting for you BIG TIME.

As for me, I have been working on bouncing back from Patrick Henry. Have been sore in the hams and glutes, but that is getting better.

M: 8.25 at 7:40 overall...pretty sore

T: 10.13 at 7:42 overall

W: 12.13 at 7:29 overall...felt good in this one

T: 11.5 at 7:01 overall...1:00/1:00 on/off fartlek...okay, but legs still stiff

F: 12.25 at 7:31 overall...felt decent...hilly west side of town

Sat.: 10.25 at 7:32...felt crummy

Sun.: 15.5 at 6:49 overall...6 x MP/HMP/Easy (half miles)...blew it away...target zone was 5:55-6:15...went 6:09, 6:05, 6:02, 5:59, 5:57, 5:55...pace came easily...could not slow down enough, even on the half-mile rests, which were low 7s after the first one

80 miles

Have a great week, everyone!

M49 5'8" 133lbs

Goal: Sub 2:40 Chicago marathon

Been a few weeks since I've posted, but my training is going pretty well. 91 miles this week, which is the biggest week I've had leading up to this race.

M: 5 easy

Tues: am: 5 easy pm: 10 at track, with 12 x 400 w/ 60 sec rest, average around 76-77

Wed: 10 easy

Thurs: 10 easy

Fri: am: 8 easy pm: 2.5 easy

Sat: 14 total, with 10 mile tempo at 5:55 average. Pushed fairly hard, finishing with a 5:47 mile

Sun: 22 at a conversational pace (which turned out to be 6:54, which was a little faster than expected)

The ten mile tempo was a good confidence builder, but that pace still feels pretty hard. Good thing it's about 10 seconds faster than goal race pace, but my Garmin pace always seems about 4 seconds per mile faster than actual race pace. I plan to have a similar week coming up -- I seem to be responding well to long tempo-ish runs.

M 31, 5’10 155-160

PB: 1:24 in ‘18/3:05 in ‘19 (both debuts); 4:24 mile back in the day

M- 6 miles @ 7:32 (steady despite sore from hilly long run)

TU- 6.3 miles @ ?? (Warmed up easy with g/f and then helped pace her on some 200s before getting in usual run)

W- OFF

TH- 6x1000m workout @ “10K pace” with 200m jog rest (~1:15) on a pretty hot day on the Bridle Pat (80 degrees); Since I haven’t raced a 5/10K in ages I don’t know the correct pace to go here, and per usual I ran probably too fast. Here are rough splits: 3:37, 3:32, 3:34, 3:41, 3:44, 3:38; workout called for 5-6 and after hitting the first 3 hard and fast I made a conscious move to slow down and go to 6. 1.76 mile w/u, 1.15 mile c/d.

Total workout: 7.3 miles

FR- 6 miles easy

SA- 6.5 miles easy

SU- 18 mile LR @ 7:07 pace. Ran in Adidas Bostons. Achilles/ top of ankle barked a little overnight and in the beginning of the run (might need to look into what to do there). This run was crisp and fast. It started out pleasant, but got a little hot, so had some water breaks and took my time with 2 gels. My first mile was a steady 7:37 but then the next was an aggressive 6:51 on the bridle. There was some seesawing but my legs got loose and I was rolling from there especially once I was on the roads/path in the shade. Ran to West Side Highway and it got pretty hot and I was going into the wind but still was hitting 7:05-7:20 miles. After turnaround got a boost psychologically and from the wind and hit faster splits. Choppy 16th mile as I navigated back to the big park loop but I opened it up from there even with the rolling hills to the exit at 84th and ran the last 2 miles comfortably fast. Good run, last mile was 6:41 with the decent hill after the 72nd street entrance. I saw a group of 3 masters-looking guys who I wonder if frequent here early on.

Total: 50 miles ~ happy I hit a quality long run and workout in the same week. Tomorrow I am going to run crazy easy. Might take off Tuesday and then do a workout on Wednesday.

M35, 5’10”, under 160, surely

2019 bests:

5k - 16:01

Boston- 2:30:21

Upcoming:

9/21 - 10k (?)

9/29 - Half (?)

10/6 - Road mile or 5k

10/13 - Chicago (6 weeks)

Mo: AM - 10 @ 8:09; PM - 5 @ 8:20

Tu: AM - 10 @ 7:26; PM - 5 @ 8:22

We AM - 6 x 1600 w 400 (2’) jog, 13 total*; PM - Treadmill 4 @ 7:20

Th: AM - 10 @ 8:02; PM - 5 @ 8:20

Fr: AM - Track 4-3-2-1 @ 5:30/1600, 17 total**; PM - 4 @ 8:26

Sa: 10 @ 8:24

Su: 10 @ 7:29

Total: 103 miles

*Reps in 5:16.9, 5:17.6, 5:17.0, 5:15.3, 5:13.9, 5:13.9; mean = 5:15.8. Cloudy and 73 + 68. Very manageable. At the end of February I did the same workout averaging 5:14.3, but in cooler weather, and felt similarly during it.

** 6400 in 22:07, 800 jog (4’), 4800 in 16:35, 600 jog (3’), 3200 in 10:58, 400 jog (2’), 1600 in 5:23. Good weather (68 + 61, sunny but early), legs tired coming into it. Also did this workout in February with similar times. That day was 45 and windy with some flooding on the track and it was very hard.

I’ve gotten very slow on my slow days. The median mile this week was almost certainly above 8:00, which may be a PR, or at least since 1998.

I don’t know if it made the most sense to run two workouts near LT so close together. I considered more of a M-pace tempo on Friday, but really wanted to knock down the 4-3-2-1. I haven’t done much at 90-102% of GMP this cycle.

Six weeks out, it’s about time to sprinkle in some 5k-pace stuff, but don’t want to neglect the more important work.

Might get some Vaporflys. I need to buy new flats anyway.

GT - Solid week of work. Plenty to do in the next ten or so.

TDR - Long, slow distance running makes for a pretty good 5k!

JQ - Nice having one of those sorts of weeks!

Slo - You have me beat on shuffling the non-workout days. The 4x2 is no slouch, nor is that quality 22. Hitting the exact GMP doesn’t mean that much, but 5:55s are great to build fitness. I’m not planning a down week this next week, but maybe the week after, to ready for the final push.

SC - I’ve seen my HR get shockingly high on afternoon shuffles as well, days where it indicates you just don’t have much in you. Still learning how this stuff works.

Jeff - That’s probably the best way to use any of these cookbook training plans, to try to get why they laid out a plan like that and adapt it to your needs and situation.

3283823 - Plus one on the Kipchoge comment. I first applied something like this lesson (where I got it I don’t remember) at the first meet of my college sophomore season. Freshman year was a mess, and I was a bit of a head case, but forcing myself to make a stupid smile for 5 minutes before the race helped tremendously and I had my best race in 18 months. Now I use it regularly in long races and it helps.

RRR - Longest run of the year is always worth noting.

Pappy - Congrats on the weight, and thanks for taking on the leaderboard. Running threshold by feel makes plenty of sense when you know what you’re doing.

OR - The Daniels rule on easy days after races is 1 day per 3k, and it looks like that fit your week pretty closely. Then, dang, good Sunday run.

Napper - That’s a very strong weekend. I have similar results with my Garmin, although mine goes bonkers on the track for whatever reason (“I’m running 5:30 pace, not 5:10 pace.”)

TL - Good long run. Take it easy and let yourself rebuild. And I know the feeling about 10k-pace workouts. My two recent 10ks have been slogs that we’re slower than tempos. Just have to base it off other results, or think “it burns a bit but isn’t gut-wrenching.”

How do you guys get yourselves to run slow on easy days? I run without looking at my watch and I usually end up around 7:30 pace. I struggle to run slower 7:45 other than for the first mile or so while warming up? Any suggestions? I think slowing down my easy days could really help keep my legs a bit more fresh. For reference my best race in the last 6 months is a 1:15-high HM.

Sub 6:00 wrote:

SC - I’ve seen my HR get shockingly high on afternoon shuffles as well, days where it indicates you just don’t have much in you. Still learning how this stuff works.

Take it from a guy who has spent a lot of time on HR data: there's always something else to learn!

In this cycle, I have changed my training from:

-using HR in real time to guide my run based on goal % of HRmax; watch beeps to remind me to pick it up or rein it in

to

-wearing the HRM, but running by feel, and only accessing the HR data after the run (occasional checks during a run for various reasons)

My preliminary findings are these:

Using "perceived effort" as a guide

-E runs feel the same as they used to, but I'm averaging a faster pace at an equal average HR (but an occasional higher maximum HR on the run...going up a hill...etc)

-M runs so far feel easier, but I'm averaging a faster pace at a LOWER average HR

-T runs feel more like they are described by Daniels, slightly lower average HR, but/and a correspondingly (in my estimation) slower pace

Again, it's all based on limited data but that's what I'm seeing. There's also the weather to consider which is going to affect HR more on longer runs, on harder runs, and exponentially on longerharder runs.