Sub 3HR Fall Marathon Thread - The quest for less amateur glory begins?

Congrats to all the runners who broke 3!

Last chance runner: Yup, I gave this marathon cycle all I had, but wasn’t able to get there, so I think before the next one I’ve got to get the basics down and improve upon my speed. My plan is to wait until I get a 5k time equivalent to at least a 2:55 time (haven’t decided on exactly what time goal yet) , then do the same with my 10k, then do the same with a half. Depending on progress I would like to try to shoot for sub 3 again next late fall, but I don’t want to push it. Want to make sure I can cleanly break sub 3 next go around. I’ve also never trained and peaked for a 5k, so I’m excited to see what I can do.

Unfortunately, since my marathon I’ve been suffering from a weird foot pain, so I’m not sure how soon I’ll be able to get back to running properly. It feels like a tendon issue, but not like pf.

I’m eager to get back out there.

Hi fellow runners,

I have a somewhat unconventional marathon race report that I believe fits this thread. I'll just link to reddit where I posted it. Hope you don't mind the extra navigation away from this site.

https://www.reddit.com/r/running/comments/dm1ceq/how_i_raced_a_marathon_all_by_myself_in_an

finallyransub17 - "I'm fortunate to still be young and able to whip my body into shape quickly."

I think it's your mindset that's fortunate! I squandered much of my twenties becoming fat, drunk, and stupid...although I can't recall the exact order. Kudos to you for making the most of what you have at the time where you can make the most of what you have! Very impressive what you've done on very low mileage. I imagine a substantial portion of those 26 miles was high intensity?

Free_the_thigh - You & I ran on the same day, and if it makes you feel any better, my legs have not recovered yet. I'm at 30 miles over the last 7 days, all easy. I think it's the most I can/should do. No pain, but both legs feel lethargic, especially the left. The hammies seem to have taken the brunt of it.

I know you're eager to get out there, but give that tendon some time to heal before really getting after it. I read from a couple of sources that it should be all limited, easy running for at least 2 weeks...so take it easy and hopefully that tendon will sort itself out!

runnerchef - What do you say, man? This is the big weekend! Which day are you running?

That story is ridiculous and awesome. Big props to that guy. You can tell this was a huge barrier for him, so for him to never give up to the point of doing it by himself for his own personal satisfaction — very cool.

Also attaching my buildup that a poster Still Improving gathered (major H/T) to him. General cadence is 5 days on, 1 day off. 1 workout, 1 LR per week.

7/8: Total: ~ 25 miles on 5 easy runs

7/15: Total: ~30 miles on 5 easy runs (wasn't logging seriously the first two weeks so that's approximate_

7/22 Total: 34.5mi, LR: none, Workouts: none

7/29 Total: 39.6mi, LR: 9mi, Workouts: none

8/5 Total: 41.5mi, LR: 10.5mi, Workouts: 5x1200 HM pace

8/11 Total: 44.9mi, LR: 12mi, Workouts: 4x1mi @ something slower than 5k pace (weather-affected)

8/18 Total: 40.6mi, LR: 14mi hilly, Workouts: 2x(3x800) 10kish pace

8/25 Total: 47mi., LR: 2hrs(14-16mil, GPS wonky on trails), Workouts: small ladder that had 1.5mi @ threshold

9/1 Total: 50mi., LR: 18mi (fast), Workouts: 6x1000 @ CV

9/8 Total: 51.7mi., LR: 20mi, Workouts: 4x1mi

9/15 Total: 34mi.~5 runs, LR: none, Workouts: 5x1200 @ CV

9/22 Total: 50mi., LR: 21mi (fast), Workouts: none (battling cold)

9/29 Total: 49mi., LR 17.4mi, Workouts: none (battling cold)

10/6 Total: 42mi., LR 12.2mi, Workouts: 3x1mi + 1x800

10/13 Total: 26mi. "LR" 7.8mi, Workout: 3x1000 progression (threshold --> 5kpace)

w/o Marathon: M-FR ran easy 3.8mile except just 3 miles on Friday. All easy. Saturday OFF. Sunday ~ total 1 mile warmup or so including drills and dynamic stretching.

Northern lights runner wrote:

Hi fellow runners,

I have a somewhat unconventional marathon race report that I believe fits this thread. I'll just link to reddit where I posted it. Hope you don't mind the extra navigation away from this site.

https://www.reddit.com/r/running/comments/dm1ceq/how_i_raced_a_marathon_all_by_myself_in_an

Alltså, på riktigt. Det där var en brutal grej! Respekt för utförandet! Grattis, väl krigat!

Northener wrote:

Alltså, på riktigt. Det där var en brutal grej! Respekt för utförandet! Grattis, väl krigat!

Tack!

Oddly enough, it didn't feel that much different from a race once I was into it. It took some mental effort to get myself psyched before the race though. But I was desperate to get it done and highly motivated.

Cape Cod Half Marathon Race Report

Conditions: The course was flat, out-and-back west to east along the shore with several north-south deviations. There was one major hill (~0.25 miles) in the 4th and 10th mile. The temperature was ~52F with dewpoint at ~50 and the wind was NNW at the start and felt like it shifted a little more west on the way back.

Goal and Plan: I was aiming for a 1:25 to 1:26, which would peg me at a sub-3 marathon based on most calculators. I was planning to go out at 6:30 and hang on.

Report: I ran a 1:25:33, with splits of 6:28, 6:31, 6:27, 6:27, 6:27, 6:33, 6:25, 6:32, 6:21, 6:26, 6:34, 6:25, 6:28, 6:05. I was 18th overall, 13th male, and 4th in master’s.

I felt very good, holding at ~85% of my max HR until the half and then going to 88-92% in the back half. Intentionally going out conservatively paid off dividends at the end. My legs got a little weak ~ 8 miles, but I pushed through and felt good enough to keep the pace. I think I could have pushed through the last 3 a little harder and come closer to 1:25. Once I knew I was on target for a 1:25, I didn’t think I needed to destroy myself. I’d rather recover and get back to training. My Garmin measured the course at 13.24.

Overall, I’m surprised I did this well and am really happy with the result. I had a bit of a rough week since I thought I had a wart or corn on my foot, that was super painful to walk on. I was clenching all my leg muscles to compensate and did not think I was going to get past the start line. It turned out to be a piece of glass or rock that resulted in a pus-filled abscess, which I lanced and drained. Much better now!

I learned a few things today:

1. On the next half marathon, I will do 2 gels at 4 and 8 instead of 1 at 6.5.

2. I need to be diligent about getting fluids on the longer races. They did not have a lot of aid stations, but for the marathon, I’m going to have to make sure to get at least 1-2 cups each station.

3. I stink at running tangents, although there were at least 20 90-degree turns on this course.

I'm going to take 4-5 days to recover and then bounce back to 22 days of hard training before tapering for CIM.

Northern lights-This is a great story! I've always thought about doing my own personal time trial for a half or full marathon. How did it feel relative to doing a race? Was it easier or more difficult without crowds to cheer you on, other runners to dodge, etc?

Congrats on the sub 3!

Northern lights runner wrote:

Hi fellow runners,

I have a somewhat unconventional marathon race report that I believe fits this thread. I'll just link to reddit where I posted it. Hope you don't mind the extra navigation away from this site.

https://www.reddit.com/r/running/comments/dm1ceq/how_i_raced_a_marathon_all_by_myself_in_an

If you guys have some time to read about at least two runners who ran just under 3hrs using Daniele's 2Q here we go! Interestingly, I ended up running a marathon PR that is within TWO SECONDS of Northern lights runner! Using similar training and at similar age etc.

Good read, hope you like it.

HarryPlopper wrote:

Northern lights-This is a great story! I've always thought about doing my own personal time trial for a half or full marathon. How did it feel relative to doing a race? Was it easier or more difficult without crowds to cheer you on, other runners to dodge, etc?

Congrats on the sub 3!

Thanks Harry!

As I said it didn't feel that much different from a regular race once I was into it.

It definitely took some extra mental effort to get myself psyched before the race though, with no "collective excitement" to benefit from. But I was well prepared (Daniels' 2Q), desperate to get it done, and highly motivated and that carried me through, I believe.

Also, I have never run a big city marathon but only a local marathon race with something like 200-300 participants or so, so those marathons have been, to a large extent, solitary runs as well. Maybe that played to my advantage here.

Got luck at CIM, give it all you've got!

Sorry, I meant good luck at CIM, of course!

7:30 Sounds Right wrote:

If you guys have some time to read about at least two runners who ran just under 3hrs using Daniele's 2Q here we go! Interestingly, I ended up running a marathon PR that is within TWO SECONDS of Northern lights runner! Using similar training and at similar age etc.

That's interesting.

As I wrote in the reddit post, I pretty much followed the Jack Daniels’ 2Q program (41-55 miles/66-89 km per week) workouts to a T. My weekly milage was slightly higher, probably 90-100km on average.

Ran M-pace around 4:05 - 4:10 typically, although I allowed myself to go slower.

T-pace around 03:55 or so.

I felt that those workouts prepared me well for the distance. Of course, I was full of doubt before the race (who isn't?), but in retrospect, I was very well prepared. I didn't even feel beat up after the race (except for my feet).

Great story/recap. I enjoyed reading it immensely.

This week the goal was to get in some good miles ahead of starting to a Daniel's 2Q plan leading up to a 2/23/2020 marathon. I will post this weeks training including Sunday and then next week I will start measuring weekly mileage starting on Sunday (first Q workout of the week).

Stats: M/34/6'2"/185 lbs

Goal Race: Hyannis Marathon (2/23/2020)

Goal Time: Will determine sometime in January. Thinking sub-3 right now.

Monday (10/21): 8E. Avg. 7:48.

Tuesday (10/22): 12E (mostly). Avg. 7:27. Sprinkled in a few 6:5x miles towards the end. Trying to get used to throttling to M effort.

Wednesday (10/23): 6E. Avg. 7:39. Felt tired but legs eased into it and felt better by the end of the run.

Thursday (10/24): 8E. Avg. 7:24. Ran 1.5 or so miles at M pace at the end. Just trying to get a feel for it.

Friday (10/25): 8E. Avg. 7:20 Avg. Last 2 miles picked it up to something resembling M pace.

Saturday (10/26): 8E. Avg. 8:09. Ran with friend.

--Start of 17 week Marathon buildup--

Sunday (10/27): 3E+6M+1E+6M. Overall avg. 6:51. The M pace miles ended up 6:52/6:47/6:37/6:36/6:29/6:24 for the first block and 6:41/6:31/6:30/6:26/6:19/6:05 for the second block. The E miles were 8:08/7:41/7:33 to warm up and 7:58 between the two M portions. I took a gel during the that 7:58 E mile as well. Overall felt great. Need to re-evaluate my 54 VDOT level given it was a guesstimate. Moreover, set a HM PR of 1:27:08 in the middle of the workout which was kind of cool. Legs feel very solid right now so don't think I over-exerted or anything but I guess I'll find out on the next Q workout.

Total: 66 Miles. Weekly mileage PR!

highhoppingworm wrote:

--Start of 17 week Marathon buildup--

Sunday (10/27): 3E+6M+1E+6M. Overall avg. 6:51. The M pace miles ended up 6:52/6:47/6:37/6:36/6:29/6:24 for the first block and 6:41/6:31/6:30/6:26/6:19/6:05 for the second block.

Total: 66 Miles. Weekly mileage PR!

Nice workout! A word of caution here though. Decide what Vdot you're training at, then stick to that for 6-8wks, Then re-assess and increase to Vdot+1. By running your M-pace progressively, ending somewhere in threshold is not the way forward to run a successful marathon. Running MP in the right pace is kind of crucial to teach your body to relax and use minimal energy at MP. Ask yourself if 6:05 is your MP or more T. There's a time for T and a time for MP. Keep em separated. Nice workout though! Not saying that you don't get good result from that. Of course you do. But try to hit autopilot for MP, that's key for tha marathon.

You are absolutely correct. I am going to stick with a VDOT of 55 for the next 6-8 weeks and focus on hitting the paces.

Toadlips wrote:

runnerchef - What do you say, man? This is the big weekend! Which day are you running?

Thanks for asking - my race day is this SUNDAY - running in the NYC marathon - I just moved down to DC after living there for 10 years so I'm incredibly excited for the homecoming of sorts.

Last week was "fine" - did about 43 miles with 4 miles at or around MP - legs feel still a bit sore so going to take it easy this week, maybe 15 miles or so before the marathon - did a lot of walking this weekend and work around the house which left me a bit achy!

Great race reports

Harryplopper - great race - great splits! Big break through there - 1:25s feel so good!

Hi guys, 27M, and need some advice on a target time.

I'm four weeks out from my marathon. Trainings been pretty good, averaged 50mi a week over the past 18 weeks, peaking at 70mi last week. My last marathon was a 3:14 in April off an average 30mpw.

A few key races/workouts:

- Ran a 1:24:14 HM last weekend on a similar course to my goal race.

- On Saturday I did 2 x 10k within a 23mi long run. Hit them at 42:01 and 42:02

- 8 x 1k (off 60s rest) on a grassy trail this morning, splits were 3:38, 3:36, 3:35, 3:40, 3:38, 3:38, 3:39, 3:36

Any thoughts on a sensible goal for four weeks time? Thanks!

Where am I at? wrote:

- Ran a 1:24:14 HM last weekend on a similar course to my goal race.

You've got in decent volume, assuming that includes the long runs I think you should be looking at around 2:56.

The McMillan running calculator says 2:57, so somewhere in that neighbourhood.

Go through the half in 1:28 and hang on!

Where am I at? wrote:

Hi guys, 27M, and need some advice on a target time.

Any thoughts on a sensible goal for four weeks time? Thanks!

Do you have your long runs in the bag? If yes, all your times indicate strong sub 3. On a good day, I'd say 2'53-54, that's with perfect execution. Feasible would be 2'56-58. I'd aim for sub 3, sticking to 1:28:xx half. That would not be too hard/much in your current fitness. From there on it's just focus and work til the end. Sub 3 fitness -for sure.