The El Paso / Dayton Shootings Thread

bladerunner wrote:

I find it hard to believe that any of these are primarily politically motivated. We had the Vegas gunman - no manifesto and never any clear motive. The kid in California who was angry he was a virgin. They say the El Paso shooter was a very isolated person who didn't interact with people at all. When I was a kid and young adult (I'm 55), there was no internet and no cell phones. You had to talk to people, in person or on the phone. I'm wondering if the digitation (?) if that's a word, of our society has bred a generation of disaffected, frustrated young men who can't communicate with others other than via message boards. When that happens, people become 1 dimensional abstractions who either agree with you or they don't. They become so numb to the outside world that the thought of killing other people is not only plausible, it becomes a way out. I live in Colorado, where we had Columbine and the Aurora theatre shooter. I think the time has finally come when

restrictions or simply banning assault rifles and other high capacity weapons is necessary.

I've always been a gun rights advocate. But the guns I own have 6 round magazines. We may have this problem for years to come. It happens no matter who's in office. But if we can't stop these killers, then at least we can start to minimize the damage.

Where will it stop? wrote:

What causes these shootings is the out of control anger issue that so many people are having. And the media, both on the left and on the right, is responsible for a large part of it. Not the coverage afterwards, but the everyday nonsense that’s going on.

We can no longer debate (and agree on) any issue in a rational, civilized manner. No one listens to anything or anyone. We just angrily yell at each other, calling each other names. TV brings all this out to the open for everyone to see and make their judgements of. I can’t think of any TV or radio station/channel in the US now that’s neutral and unbiased, everyone is pushing their agenda with discussion hosts fanning the flames and demonizing the other side.

In the end both sides feel like no one cares at all about their issues and views. Even worse, they are ridiculed and made fun of, and they feel hopeless. It’s like bullying. If this behavior by the media (and the politicians) doesn’t change I don’t know where all this violence (and counter violence) will end.

dialogue_is_good wrote:

All these extremist, strawmen attacks discourage dialogue:

* All moslems are terrorists

* All rich white men are racists

* All gun owners are defenders of murder and mass-shootings

* All immigrants aren't real Americans

* All cops are corrupt

* All liberals are pansies and undemocratic

* All conservatives are fascists and undemocratic

Furthermore, the tendency to crucify anyone accused of a crime is another polarizing tendency that discourages dialogue.

But I think letsrun has a lot of sophomoric trolls who like to post insults and other sophomoric stuff, that also discourages dialogue. One has to only to glance over any thread that mentions any of the DSD issue, or anything touching on drugs, or Russians, ...

Two Wildly Different Perspectives wrote:

One side says, "Y'all go to hell." The other says "if I believed in God, I'd send you there." But either way we make some space in the hell that we create... on both sides.

One side says, "Kill 'em all!" The other says, "Line those killers up against the wall." But either way some blood is shed thanks to our cooperation... on both sides.

One side says, "Man, take what's yours." The other says, "Live on no more than you can afford." But either way we just possess, and everyone ends up with less... on both sides.

NotPC wrote:

There is such a drum beat from both side telling people they are being attacked, that their personal safety is at risk by the other side, that the violently mentally ill latch on to that and eventually act out.

Allen53 wrote:

Until we ask the right questions about what the pressures in our society are that create this parade of morally ill, if not emotionally and mentally ill, people who reach for a Glock when they decide to check out, then we will be waiting a very long time for this phenomenon of people spraying a public place full of innocent people with bullets to end. The guns are just the tool of choice, too easily available, I agree, but not the root cause. We need to look at where our society puts its resources.

Private boards of directors and major stockholders hold enormous power over our lives and have made disastrous decisions that have made this society much less secure for working people over the past few decades, leaving us over worked, over stressed, insecure, frustrated, and fearful.

Those same elites have pushed the political discourse during the same period in the direction of American empire, with all the romanticizing of guns and macho military stereotyping of "make my day" that have gone with it. Our entertainment media, partly responding to the profit potential selling sexualized violence to physically and emotionally adolescent movie viewers and video game players, and partly marketing virtual violence games first developed by the military to overcome soldiers' unwillingness to kill their fellow human beings, has provided an "entertainment" environment that trains people to be killers. When we add in the toxic stew of the news media that plays up the lurid and the sensational (without, however, engaging in any intelligent or meaningful analysis) in the hunt for ratings, and that this same media, owned by corporate ideologues, often pushes a culture-war agenda designed to increase people's frustration with our society, the result is a powder keg. A re-examination of our society's fundamental structure, one that stresses our common humanity and the importance of community over competition and individualism is long overdue.

A violent empire making violent people kill others around the world, while extolling militarism and more violence of every sort in its domestic and foreign policy - how about dismantling the empire, ending military spending, focusing on people's happiness and well being?

celery wrote:

Media Bro wrote:

I’m serious - they inspire future killings by making the killers insanely famous, airing the killers name for weeks on end. All of these murders know for a fact if they go blast a few people that CNN / Fox will have them famous within 5 mins.

The bad part? The media organizations love the shootings as they make literally upon millions of dollars in ad revenue/ commercials from all the people who click on the articles or watch the stuff on TV. It seems like legislation needs to be passed to prevent this stuff from being covered as it’s a sick loop of people making money off killings which inspires more shootings.

When there is an attempted mass shooting and an armed person quickly takes them out, it never turns into a national story. I wonder why that is.

But there's the solution for you.

Allen53 wrote:

Until we ask the right questions about what the pressures in our society are that create this parade of morally ill, if not emotionally and mentally ill, people who reach for a Glock when they decide to check out, then we will be waiting a very long time for this phenomenon of people spraying a public place full of innocent people with bullets to end. The guns are just the tool of choice, too easily available, I agree, but not the root cause. We need to look at where our society puts its resources.

Private boards of directors and major stockholders hold enormous power over our lives and have made disastrous decisions that have made this society much less secure for working people over the past few decades, leaving us over worked, over stressed, insecure, frustrated, and fearful.

Those same elites have pushed the political discourse during the same period in the direction of American empire, with all the romanticizing of guns and macho military stereotyping of "make my day" that have gone with it. Our entertainment media, partly responding to the profit potential selling sexualized violence to physically and emotionally adolescent movie viewers and video game players, and partly marketing virtual violence games first developed by the military to overcome soldiers' unwillingness to kill their fellow human beings, has provided an "entertainment" environment that trains people to be killers. When we add in the toxic stew of the news media that plays up the lurid and the sensational (without, however, engaging in any intelligent or meaningful analysis) in the hunt for ratings, and that this same media, owned by corporate ideologues, often pushes a culture-war agenda designed to increase people's frustration with our society, the result is a powder keg. A re-examination of our society's fundamental structure, one that stresses our common humanity and the importance of community over competition and individualism is long overdue.

A violent empire making violent people kill others around the world, while extolling militarism and more violence of every sort in its domestic and foreign policy - how about dismantling the empire, ending military spending, focusing on people's happiness and well being?