Why the old guard is killing the running community

got to say, the basis of what people post mostly are - somehow as if anyone cares, nobody cares really except your mom.

nobody cares about racism except to look good.

trump, tv, social media, bla bla, has nothing to do with it.

running, is something you do with your body, and be like the animals.

americans and westerners ruin a good thing,

i always hated running with westerners, and loved running with africans, or alone. because - yap yap yap, bullllship nonstop, instead of suck up the air and run

OP is spot on. Abusive "old school" coaching is horrible. It can really affect the student athletes negatively. It's amazing what a difference an actual good coach can make on a talented athlete. The abusive old school coach can ruin all the potential in the world. However I cant 100 percent fault the abusive old school coach if their intentions are good but the results are bad because of the stupid old school approach. It happens and the athletes are messed up because of this unfortunate reality. Coaching is difficult to get right.

This is why Tinman Elite and their ilk are drawing interest: because they treat running like a real sport. Any other sport you can find the competitive schedule and the outcome of competition, as well as analysis. In running, it hardly happens except for those at the very top. TME became their own press agent and inform anyone who's interested about their process in an engaging way. (NAZ Elite do it as well, incidentally.) I'm talking mostly about the YouTube content here. Instagram and other social media like Twitter and Facebook are for building image via self-promotion. For an organization, provided it's done well, it can work. For individuals, I can see how it comes off as self-centered. Anyway, about any other sport figures out how to promote itself well but because running/T&F is a quasi-professional sport, it's typically done poorly if at all. Most groups or runners on Instagram will go on about the preparation for races yet if the race isn't a home run they either respond with rationalizion and excuses or just go into hiding and say nothing at all publicly. That's not how it works in real sport, you don't get to act like you have a perfect record. I want to be a fan of all groups and good runners yet so many make it difficult because they're lazy if not afraid. Good on Tinman Elite and all others who do embrace the work of opening themselves to fans.

The Hounddog will give you the straight truth , the whole truth and nothing but the truth. You ain’t gonna like it but facts is facts . Kids are soft today . Main reason : the kids who are attracted to distance running these days are mostly well to do rich kids who have mommy and daddy running interference. Back in the 60s and 70s kids who ran cross-country were the scrawny street tough kids not big enough to play football ,and basketball . We ran cross country in the fall , wrestled in the winner and ran track in the spring . Those kids were as tough as nails . My cross country team wouldn’t think twice about fighting the football team . Maybe we would lose but the football team would know it was a battle . The legend of Pre is now an amazing story of a blue collar kid who becomes champ . Hello McFly , every kid who ran then came from blue collar roots - running brave, Ryan, Dellinger, Centrowitz, Wottle, Pre . The book “The loneliness of the long distance runner “ wasn’t made up .

Now kids who run are rich kids, soft entitled rich kids who have mom make excuses and who quit when it gets hard . I got kids whose parents give me notes from their counselor that if Johnny doesn’t win it will cause anxiety and other kids who are excused from practice 3 days a week for different doctors and then blame the coach when they are in the back .

The best coaches are better than what I had in 1967 , I’ll give you that , but times are sooo much slower . I was the last kid in the 880 on my J.V. track team in 1965 . That same time now would have gotten 2 overall in the league championship in the 800 this year . Why is that ??

Don’t get me started on the instagram BS . Every run kids got to bring their Phones for pics , can’t work hard cus they will look like trash in their pics .

It ain’t the old guard running track , they are just telling you it is being ruined .

Interesting notes.

What I've noticed is that while the top end kids are as fast or faster than back in the day for the most part, the kids in the middle seem to be slower, and the kids in the back are even worse. I have several ideas as to why this is, but I won't go into them here, as most of what it is strays away from the social media discussion.

I wouldn't say the top kids aren't tough however. If you're good, and you're maxing it out, you're tough. I don't care what era you're in.

It's typical that we get old gen vs new gen. How about supportive and nurturing environment vs critical and abusive environment. When I read about Arthur Lydiard who is definitely old school I don't see someone as you are describing. Also I think of the old school and preaching train the base first as much more supportive since it is less injury prone than prescribing fast intervals.

What, don't understand. I read so much s..t on this site especially racist and this is what you find as disturbing. This is a legitimate question and deserves a legitimate response.

Can you blame them? What is your generations or others doing to alleviate the issue? Exactly, you are embracing the same problems and enabling them, so spare us your holier than thou BS. Anybody from any generation will figure things out and tough it out when needed, they aren’t special and neither are we.

WeNeedToFixThis wrote:

The “obsession with instagram” I’m referring to is the generation as a whole’s obsession — not the running community. But regardless, is there an issue with wanting to post on Instagram to share your training and racing? Sorry we don’t rely on newspapers to get the word spread about us, and dont send out Christmas cards to update people on our lives, old man!! Your fear of social media is made up just the same as the fear of rock and roll was. Get over yourself.

You are wrong. Every fab is eventually fully adopted by the older generations too. There was a time when it was not cool that all the “old” people were getting on Facebook and now they are already flooding Instagram. If you haven’t realized this you are completely out of touch.

Realist Old Dude wrote:

Interesting notes.

What I've noticed is that while the top end kids are as fast or faster than back in the day for the most part, the kids in the middle seem to be slower, and the kids in the back are even worse. I have several ideas as to why this is, but I won't go into them here, as most of what it is strays away from the social media discussion.

I wouldn't say the top kids aren't tough however. If you're good, and you're maxing it out, you're tough. I don't care what era you're in.

You are right . The top kids now are still tough . You don’t get to the top without being physically and mentally tough , whether you are rich or poor. And coaches are smarter than 50 years ago .

The problem is that there are only so many talented kids who are physically and mentally tough and self motivated. There are a lot more kids who have the natural ability who if the coach gives them the occasional kick in the pants would do something , but in this touchy feelly world we can’t hurt anyone’s feelings . It’s pathetic . Everyone gets a participation trophy .

Okay!!! wrote:

20 something runner wrote:

What the hell is OP talking about?

I haven't a clue, but he sure is fired up about it.

Geez...I'm glad someone else is confused. Maybe if the OP was more specific?

To the OP: Shuddup, stop whining and over-analysing! Your verbosity is so boring.

Lydiard was supportive, but he also demanded that people devote their time and efforts to training. Lydiard deep into old age still coached runners. I actually had a friend who knew someone who after HS went to train with Lydiard for summer. His coaching was ferocious and not touchy feely. That is how it was described. There is a difference between having your athletes back and placating to them. He was more like Salazar or Schumacher today. Most people can't handle this type of intensity or mentality. In general newer generations are "triggered". It is as if the roles are reversed. Younger generations on average think they have nothing to learn from older generations and get offended when they are told what is up. That is sad. This was always a thing between young and old, but I think it is just more pronounced today. I agree there are still very good runners that are hardcore and not overly sensitive, however the general trend is not that way. A lot of runners today could not have handled the best coaching of the past. Go back and read about Dellinger, Bowerman, Timmons, etc. Not for the faint of heart but people were dying to train with them.

There will be a swing back though. In the 80s and 90s HS runners stopped training really hard. I think they came back from that nicely and now the times are much deeper and faster. I think the same will be said for this mentality. People want to succeed, so if they realize they need to get a thicker skin to do so, I think eventually that damn will break and kids and their culture will change. I think people forget that the era that produced guys like Snell, Elliot, Ryun, Mills, Shorter, Rogers, Clarke, Pre, etc was also surrounded by a generation that wasn't hardcore at all.

Did you even read what OP wrote? Chill with this defensive stuff.

You’re old.

A couple of thoughts.

1. There’s clearly something wrong with our running system when we have 100’s of guys breaking 15 in the 5k in college but so few try to even remotely stay competitive afterwards.

2. The social media thing is good for the sport for the most part. Every single sport has a presence on social media and running will be left far behind if they follow advice of the other posters on this site. That’s just how it is now, you either adapt or get left behind in the sporting world. If you have a problem with someone “gloating” on social media you can always unfollow them. Also, it’s extremely selfish to always think “this person thinks they are better than me by posting this success/run” you are assuming they are posting with this intent, but in reality you are the one taking it the wrong way and assuming they are trying to slight you.

3. This whole “millennial” aren’t tough guys etc. is the stupidest thing about our boomer generation right now. Most of these guys calling out this generation are coming from a position of arrogance and want to use their age as a way to make themselves feel better about themselves. There are so many people out there who use their age to boost their ego as being better than someone else.

The Old Guard dies, but it never surrenders. June 18, 1815

PTF wrote:

Okay!!! wrote:

I haven't a clue, but he sure is fired up about it.

Geez...I'm glad someone else is confused. Maybe if the OP was more specific?

I'm glad your glad we're not the only one confused. OP, cliff notes and be more clearer.

“So like most things boomers complain about, it turns out that they're really the ones to blame for the current state of things.”

Do you blame your parents for what you have become?