Fix My Foot Take 10

wejo,

last time you posted about your PF I emailed you info about wearing birkenstocks to strengthen your feet. the idea is to fix the cause of foot pain: weak feet, instead of treating the symptoms with coverups and compensation: orthotics, cortizone, taping, ultrasound, etc.

get the ones with the hard insoles without a heel strap in the back and the toebar in front of the ball of the foot on the insole. wear them loose enough so you have to grip the toebar with your feet to keep them on. after a week of wearing them as much as possible your arches wil be 2X stronger and the PF will start to go away. after running for 15 years in orthotics and still having chronic PF and AT, both gone after one month of birkies, and running w/o orthotics.

Did you ever try 'em?

Weldon:

What type of shoes are you running in? A lot of the times a simple change once you heal up will ensure you don't re-injure it.

Nick

MAYEROFF - how long is the recovery from shockwave therapy? Does it really work that well?

malmo wrote:

The root causes are pure speculation. If it's "overusage" or "biomechanical" -- both boilerplate diagnoses that essentially means "I don't know" -- then why isn't the other foot injured, as well? Is the usage and biomechanics different on the other foot? If "overusage" and "biomechanics" are the culprits, then why aren't we all always injured? Injuries, simply put, happen, they go with the territory.

"Injuries heal, slow times never will" - John Schiefer

Exactly malmo.

I was just pushing wejo's buttons for the fun of it. But I do think it is silly for him to say "I have never had an overuse injury since I started running high mileage." Again, HOW does he know exactly what caused this injury or others??? (and hasn't he been injured a lot?? Has it all been the same injury?) Maybe it was caused by ONE wrong step, or maybe it was 10,000 slightly wrong steps, or 100,000 perfectly placed steps that just wore down some fascia or a tendon or muscle or whatever. Who knows! But since he seems to be absolutely sure of the root cause, I don't know why he is asking for advice.

(on the other hand, I would have expected him to reply as you did, more or less, in this manner: 'look, running lots and running intensely are injury risks. But one HAS to take those risks if one wants to get good. I took those risks and ran a couple incredible races. But I have also had some injury issues. It was worth it though. ' Now THAT would have been a reasonable response. But no, he comes back with: 'my injuries have ZERO to do with the amount I run. 200 miles a week or 20 miles a week, either way my legs would have EXACTLY the same level of injuries.' And that's just ludicrous.

But I guess when you have your mind made up and are a supreme ideologue like wejo is (as far as running philosophy AND politics he such an ideologue), then you are not really looking for advice, but just a magic cure for $2000. May he find it and not have to change his mind about anything. )

SHIRTLESS, Wejo was being facetious about the $2000 offer (although I'm sure he'd pay ten times that if someone had the answer). He's quite grounded with respect to the reality of the situation. Plantar fasciitis has it's own special seat in the pantheon of running injuries. No matter how many second opinions one gets, the answer will never be acceptable.

"I have a dream...I have a dream that one day no child will be afflicted with plantar fasciitis!"

at least you admit to trying to push my buttons. If you hadn't attacked me, then maybe I wouldn't have lashed back. I'm an "idealogue" now. Great.

I'll be the first to admit injuries are a part of the sport. Even if my injury was an overuse injury or if I was frequently injured with more than one problem (which I'm not which I would attribute to too much training) i would gladly say its a risk you take. That's why I think its bs when people say, "so and so is a bad coach, because X is injured". Every top distance runner is injured at some point.

Easy relaxed, long running is less stress on the body than hard, long running and I would argue its less stress than moderately long hard running.

I have said this before---I will say it again---if you haven't gone to the most minimal of shoes as a potential solution,it is worth a TRY. It has worked for many of us despite the plethora of recommendations against this method.

I recommend going straight to the Puma H-Street and then:

1. Run one mile per day the first week (alternate surfaces).

2. Run two miles per day the second week.

3. Run three miles per day the third and fourth weeks.

4. After this, you'd have to re-evaluate.

5. Use the eccentric achilles tendonitis rehab. protocol throughout (to ensure solid calves and achilles----some have had great results for PF with these same exercises).

Try it Wejo.

Must read:

I had plantar facsitis (sp?) several years ago. It lasted 2 years and caused me to limp home on plenty of runs. One day, still bad, I performed a hill workout. It was in Memphis and on the bridge that goes to mud island.

The pain magically went away during one of the hills. Within 2 steps, I went from hurting bad like usual, to 100% (not 99% but 100%)....and have been to this day. It felt like the facia simply stretched out and the pain vanished. I felt the pain dissipate while pushing off that foot. I don't know what the scientific explanation would be, but it like magic. Unbelievable.

ttc wrote:

The pain magically went away during one of the hills. Within 2 steps, I went from hurting bad like usual, to 100% (not 99% but 100%)....and have been to this day. It felt like the facia simply stretched out and the pain vanished. I felt the pain dissipate while pushing off that foot. I don't know what the scientific explanation would be, but it [was] like magic.

ttc, the scientific explanation is "lattice of coincidence" and "cosmic unconsciousness."

From the movie "Repo Man":

Miller: A lot of people don't realize what's really going on. They view life as a bunch of unconnected incidences and things. They don't realize that there's this like lattice of coincidence that lays on top of everything. I'll Give you an example, show you what I mean. Suppose you thinking about a plate of shrimp. Suddenly somebody will say like plate or shrimp or plate of shrimp out of the blue no explanation. No point in looking for one either. It's all part of a cosmic unconsciousness.

wejo,

listen to MAYEROFF,

http://walking.about.com/od/heelpain/a/pfshockwave.htm

wejo- to add onto my previous post about peroneus tendon or cuboid/cuneiform bones; why don't you spring for an MRI of your foot, or have you already? If you are going to spend the money already for shockwave, cortisone etc. why don't you pinpoint the potentially damaged structures; a more focused or accurate diagnosis may help tailor a better therapy. my .02

I had planter fascitis on and off for 3 years. The thing which helped massively in the beginning, was using Nike Air Structure Triax shoes, the 2003 model. After about 6 months using these, the problem diminshed and I moved to less supportive shoes. I tried orthotics (4 different types from 3 different doctors), Addidas supportive shoes, Asics supportive shoes, but it was the Air Structures that really helped. I guess that they just took the stress off in the right places to allow the healing to happen.

Try giving those a try if you have not tried already.

Get yourself up to Rochester and see Clark Brownstone or go to University Sports Medicine and see Dr Peppard.

I am still curious to know what shoes you were wearing during the time the injuries developed...And stop waisting your time responding to the Shirtless yahoo. Later!

Minimilists are like another cult.

Note to flat wearers: Stop pushing so hard on everyone. Everyone doesn't have to do what you have found that works for you.

I don't believe I was talking to you Mr. Know it all...

I had plantar fascitis many years ago when I was winning the major Masters road races in Florida. (NOT intended as a boast but to show I was a serious competitve runner.) A kind podiatrist in Miami who liked athletes made me (for free) soft othotics roughly once a month. He simply used a full-length soft insole and glued cushioning pads to support my arch. I wore them out quickly which is why he did it monthly. He also showed me how to tape my foot/arch, PULLING UP ON THE ARCH TOWARDS THE INSIDE (to support it). I was able to keep training and competing and the pain gradually went away over about 6 months.

If/when you are recovered, I strongly agree with those who urge strengthening your foot and arch - by doing lots of toe raises and also running barefoot on golf courses. The best way to prevent recurrence.

Cortisone: Be careful with it, of course. But I had good luck with it years before the plantar fascitis when I had an injection to ease a stone bruise that wouldn't go away (I'd tried Ron Hill/Abebe Bikila barefoot-on-pavement-running).

i have had some recent bouts with PF in my left foot the past few months. somehow it never got so bad that it really sidelined me, but it hurt like hell some times after runs!! i started trying out all different trainers and inserts to try to fix things. what i found was that superfeet orthotics made the pain worse. my understanding is that the insert is supposed to keep your PF from over-stretching, which makes sense, but all it did for me was push into my heel and cause pain (they also caused IT pain). also, possibly more relevant to your situation, is that supportive trainers without inserts gave me some pain on the outside of my foot. however, the pain was mainly felt on the top of my foot. since i'm more of a 60-70 mile per week guy, i'm assumming any pain i had is magnified for you. i've been running in the boston classics for a few weeks and i have no real foot pain. the PF is just a lingering soreness, but as malmo indicated, it doesn't go away overnight. my opinion is that the cause is a combination of high mileage and biomechanics. i believe in high mileage, but 100 mile weeks are gonna put stress on your feet no matter how you cut it. my left foot definitely has a different gait than my right, based on my shoe wear patterns. so, i would recommend trying out different trainers, perhaps another pair will work with your gait better. i used to be a patient of Fullem, he's a great resource! it'd be good for him to chime in and give his opinion. hope this helps, good luck!

Wejo: Go with the shock wave therapy NOW. You will then be advised (depending on the doc) to take 2-4 weeks off then easy running for a couple months although you may want orthotics when you resume running. The Epos Ultra machine is the best; one session and you're done. Cost me $750 although this was in a rural area of PA. The machine also works well on chronic Achilles tendonitis. Others may charge $1500 or more but go for it. I'm 52 years old and it actually worked for an old guy like me. Tried everything else; rest, ice, stausberg sock, etc.

Michael