The Perfect 5K Training Plan

Working Stiff wrote:

Nothing official. I don’t have a business or anything. But if you want me to put something together for you or something like that send me an email.

thenofxlagwagon@gmail.com

Thanks for the opportunity, I just might. I'm sort of between seasons (winter is quickly approaching here, Sweden) and haven't really figured out yet what to do for next season. But I would like to try something new, I think.

/PS Those band names in your email address were hot on my playlist back in the days. :)

Those band names in your email address were hot on my playlist back in the days. :)

Same. Northern Lights Runner, you wouldn't happen to know how someone in the States could score a Dark Trail Runners shirt, would you?

Kennekuk Jack wrote:

Northern Lights Runner, you wouldn't happen to know how someone in the States could score a Dark Trail Runners shirt, would you?

https://darktrailrunners.com/index.html

Sorry, no idea. Perhaps reach out to them on their Facebook page?

Working Stiff wrote:

#1 - 3 x 10 minutes @Tempo/LT w/ 2 minutes jog + 4 to 6 x 30 seconds

I find 30secs uncomfortable on the threadmill: speed up/down takes time, and for me, leaving the mill on fast, and jump onoff, seems to leed to injury (IRL you just dont go from 0 to 10-13mph).

However, 1 minute seems OK. What's the science reason behind 30 secs, can I / why shouldn't I replace them for 1 minutes?

thank you

threadmill30secs wrote:

Working Stiff wrote:

#1 - 3 x 10 minutes @Tempo/LT w/ 2 minutes jog + 4 to 6 x 30 seconds

I find 30secs uncomfortable on the threadmill: speed up/down takes time, and for me, leaving the mill on fast, and jump onoff, seems to leed to injury (IRL you just dont go from 0 to 10-13mph).

However, 1 minute seems OK. What's the science reason behind 30 secs, can I / why shouldn't I replace them for 1 minutes?

thank you

It's basically just a long stride. For me, I have noticed feeling better after workouts when I do something quicker like this towards the end of a workout. They don't have to be very fast and they don't have to be that long to be effective. It's just a way to break your legs out of that pace you were running the longer reps at. If you're having trouble doing them on the treadmill it won't kill you to leave them out but I wouldn't go more than 30 seconds as then it makes the workout a lot harder than it should be.

If there is a short stretch of road or sidewalk and the weather isn't awful, I think it's probably worth going outside after your run and just doing a few strides before you finish up.

Working Stiff wrote:

For me, I have noticed feeling better after workouts when I do something quicker like this towards the end of a workout.

I agree on this. I've actually started incorporating these workouts in my training now. Not sure where it'll lead but it feels refreshing after several months of marathon-oriented training. I like the variation so far and my legs feel a lot happier than under a Daniels' 2Q regime.

Thanks to you, Working Stiff, for sharing the rotation schedule!

I have coached over 300 runners of different levels from hobby joggers to world class runners in just 4 years....and all improved!!Welcome to perfect world class coaching! :)

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

I have coached over 300 runners of different levels from hobby joggers to world class runners in just 4 years....and all improved!!Welcome to perfect world class coaching! :)

Hej JS, fellow Swede here! I don't doubt your coaching skills but I do think you need to work on your image if you want to be taken seriously. Personally I enjoy your tone, but it can be a bit tiring to have you hijack threads for self-promotion. Share more of your experience and coaching/running knowledge and you'll make a lot more friends and earn respect around here.

I'm neither talented nor do I have the ambition to become a "world-class runner" so I'm probably not an interesting runner to coach for someone with your credentials. I do want to find/approach my limits though and any input from you would be greatly appreciated.

I wish you a magic winter! ;-)

Hello Swedish fellow! :) I see you didn´t know that all around 300 runners I have coached to improve are runners of different levels , even runners like you.)) And all levels of runners need a world class coach to reach their optimum performance. Why keep on in trial and error style when you can have a guaranteed improvement ?

- The man with the golden wand wish you a magic winter too ! :) -

To run your very best 5 k is with my system basically the same as to run your very best 800m- marathon time. There

are just some small differences up to the Art of coaching and distance you are aiming for. However you turn and turn things around there is mainly three factors for the result, maxVO2-pace , lactate threshold pace and the very best aerobic power pace ( LSD) . If you know how to best combine these factors you will reach your goal and with just enough what it takes when it comes to mileage.It`s very simple - if you know how to do it. )))

- Magic season -

Hi, and thanks for this training program. I spent a few winter months following it and I liked it.

Have tried a different training approach called the "Easy Interval Method" (there is a book available written by a dutch fellow, Klaas Lok), but found that the approach was wearing me down after a couple of months, so I think I'll move back to "The Perfect 5K Training Plan" again.

I was just thinking if one was to use this as a well-rounded, more 5/10K-focused program, how would I transition into training for longer distances, like a fall HM or marathon? I would assume that a similar structure could be maintained with more emphasis on keeping workouts longer and on the aerobic side. Would you care to elaborate, Working stiff?

Northern lights runner wrote:

Hi, and thanks for this training program. I spent a few winter months following it and I liked it.

Have tried a different training approach called the "Easy Interval Method" (there is a book available written by a dutch fellow, Klaas Lok), but found that the approach was wearing me down after a couple of months, so I think I'll move back to "The Perfect 5K Training Plan" again.

Interesting! When you say wearing down, do you mean psychologically (there is not much variation in it) or physically? If physically, the first thing to check would probably be if you were running the intervals too fast.

Were you doing all days on a running track?

how is this supposed to be perfect 5k training with only LT and 3k pace workouts.

Where are 5k/10k pace workouts?

To be good at a pace you need to spend time a this specific pace.

interessant wrote:

When you say wearing down, do you mean psychologically (there is not much variation in it) or physically? If physically, the first thing to check would probably be if you were running the intervals too fast.

Both. I'd say I followed the pacing guidelines pretty well, perhaps a bit on the quicker end of the ranges. No track access. Felt okay at first, but after a couple of months I started developing small aches and started feeling less energetic and saw my paces drop. Workouts felt increasingly difficult and I started dreading runs. Can't see that I did anything particularly wrong. Perhaps I should have been more conservative with the pacing but then, I followed the recommendations in the book. Anyway, I guess I could scale back those efforts but at this time I need a fresh start, so I'll return to an approach that I enjoyed more.

Didn't come here to bash that method though (wish I hadn't brought it up in the first place), but looking for more insights from Working Stiff.

I'm glad you mentioned it; I'm interested in the Verheul method and have the book, but the schedules would be too monotonous for me, though I think there are good ideas in there too which I have taken inspiration from. Good to hear feedback from people who've tried it, most feedback has been positive on these forums, so interesting to see a different experience.

This thread is interesting too, hope you get some further input from Working Stiff!

If you are looking for a well rounded base that hits most all energy zones you can do a lot worse than just doing this out of the box. As you run by feel, you likely will be in the appropriate zones for for the given reps. For example your body will probably gravitate to LT-ish for the 3 mins, a bit faster for the 2 minutes, etc.

Is it perfect? No - but you can think bout how you want to change some of the structure based on your specific needs. I think Working Stiff did a magnificent job putting together something that looks as simple as it does, but really is quite nuanced in its approach.

I'm interested in the OP.

When do you rest?

ex-runner wrote:

I'm interested in the OP.

When do you rest?

It's a good idea to take a day off when you feel like you need it. Lots of programs have success running 6 days per week of taking an off day every 2 weeks. If you were to go that route, the day after the long run is probably as good a day as any to take off.

Also, if feeling run down, turning a workout day into an easy day is a good way to go. I tend to agree that an under-trained healthy athlete beats and injured one every day so doing whatever you can to not get injured is a good decision in my book.

Impala31 wrote:

how is this supposed to be perfect 5k training with only LT and 3k pace workouts.

Where are 5k/10k pace workouts?

To be good at a pace you need to spend time a this specific pace.

Bowerman Track Club (Evan Jager, Shelby Houlihan) does somewhere between 2 and 4 specific workouts every season according to athletes in that group. They spend almost all their time working on paces faster and slower than race pace. It's something Canova stresses too... you have to train those "support" paces in order to get to race pace. That said, the 16-20 x 1min on, 30 seconds off workout can get to 5K pace depending on the day. In my view, LT isn't a pace, it's a feeling. And with short intervals that feeling can be race pace sometimes.

There are quite a few successful coaches who believe specific pace should be more of a focus in training throughout the year. So I'm not saying there aren't other ways to get there, this is just my way.

The "Perfect" tag was more of an attention grabber than a real thing. I like it as a general outline and I think it's more about the ideas than the specifics. If you want to use it as is, that's cool. If you want to tinker to make it fit your thing, that's cool too. Or you can just ignore it and do something else. Nothing on the line for me here if you make that call.