Francine Niyonsaba admits to high testosterone.

Angry Willy wrote:

Correction, that should be .05 to ~.15%

Angry Willy wrote:

Semenaya and Niyonsaba are both males who were born with vaginas.

Intersex/ambiguous genitalia occur in .5 - ~1.5% of all births.

That's interesting. That would mean there 3.8m-11.4m people in the world like this and186k-558k people in the US.

Not sure what to think of all that.

David S wrote:

Literally nowhere in that statement does she say she has XY chromosomes. The fact that she has high testosterone doesn't mean her condition is the same as that of Caster Semenya.

She is short, has narrow shoulders and broad hips, skinny arms and big legs. Nobody in their right mind who saw her on the street would think "that's a dude."

David S wrote:

Literally nowhere in that statement does she say she has XY chromosomes. The fact that she has high testosterone doesn't mean her condition is the same as that of Caster Semenya. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Am I missing something?

Yes, most definitely.

Angry Willy wrote:

Semenaya and Niyonsaba are both males who were born with vaginas.

Intersex/ambiguous genitalia occur in .5 - ~1.5% of all births.

..

This is old news...so is the Kenyan (forhot her name but shes been Kenya's top 800 runner last 2 years and looks and sounds more manly them Caster SERIOUSLY) who burst onto the scene 2-3 years ago.

Is it now time to get rid of gender categories in track and field and replace them with testosterone level categories? You could have high, medium, low, and very low levels. These categories could be seen as the equivalent of weight categories in boxing so it could work providing the testosterone levels are monitored as being fairly stable in a given athlete.

VIPAM wrote:

Angry Willy wrote:

Semenaya and Niyonsaba are both males who were born with vaginas.

Intersex/ambiguous genitalia occur in .5 - ~1.5% of all births.

..

This is old news...so is the Kenyan (forhot her name but shes been Kenya's top 800 runner last 2 years and looks and sounds more manly them Caster SERIOUSLY) who burst onto the scene 2-3 years ago.

Say what you want about Margaret Wambui, but she does not sound manly. Here’s a clip of her speaking Swahili, can’t find one in English but I’m sure they are out there. Her voice doesn’t give anything away.

Those girls just have a bit higher testosterone and are getting attacked for that. Shameful really. They have brought 800m female running on a good level over the last years.

Agree on her voice, but she runs like a dude.

Semenyagoat wrote:

Those girls just have a bit higher testosterone and are getting attacked for that. Shameful really. They have brought 800m female running on a good level over the last years.

Those girls do not have just "a bit higher testosterone"...read the articles mate.

D3 Girl Runner wrote:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/olympic-silver-medallist-also-has-testosterone-condition-1.4383568

And literally no one is surprised.

Melissa Bishop was robbed of gold.

Yes she was robbed and countless others too.

Depending on the upcoming ruling - she should sue.

Last I knew, a abnormally high testosterone level, based on gender, equals a doping infraction. If these athletes are running in the women’s category then their testosterone levels must be in the normal female range or they can run in the men’s category if they don’t want to be charged with a doping infraction.

This may sound harsh to some. I think the legitimacy of Female sports is in jeopardy, with gender issues... and natural testosterone issues. People are making fun of the situation and are turning away.

Ladies make a stand for your own sake. Otherwise kiss goodbye all that has been accomplished to bring women’s athletics to their rightful level of equality, and acceptability.

Yes hopefully we will only have one human category very soon. The inequality in evaluating men and women differently is an ancient concept. We should have true equality in this day and age

David S wrote:

Literally nowhere in that statement does she say she has XY chromosomes. The fact that she has high testosterone doesn't mean her condition is the same as that of Caster Semenya. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Am I missing something?

_____________________

The IAAF rules apply only to women with intersex conditions who have high levels of testosterone, and upon whose bodies the high testosterone has an androgenizing effect. This doesn't mean she has the same condition as Semenya, but it does mean she has a Difference of Sexual Development (DSD) aka intersex condition. This is the very important piece of information that keeps getting left out of news stories. Women who are not intersex and who have high testosterone are not subject to the IAAF rules.

El Keniano and his ilk caught between a rock and a hard place with this one. His nation severs heads of transgender people, and believe they are an abomination, so he can't chime in w/his usual pro-Africa spin.

Where are you? Support your countryman, or countrywoman. Support they.

and the idiotic rulings do not apply to the events where high levels of testosterone will have the most benefit, sprints and throws. the iaaf is afraid to piss off the european and american athletes and their lawyers. apply the rule evenly across all events or not at all

GD wrote:

David S wrote:

Literally nowhere in that statement does she say she has XY chromosomes. The fact that she has high testosterone doesn't mean her condition is the same as that of Caster Semenya. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Am I missing something?

_____________________

The IAAF rules apply only to women with intersex conditions who have high levels of testosterone, and upon whose bodies the high testosterone has an androgenizing effect. This doesn't mean she has the same condition as Semenya, but it does mean she has a Difference of Sexual Development (DSD) aka intersex condition. This is the very important piece of information that keeps getting left out of news stories. Women who are not intersex and who have high testosterone are not subject to the IAAF rules.

D3 Girl Runner wrote:

Melissa Bishop was robbed of gold.

This is such a sad and uninformed idea of what's going on.

I used to run pretty fast 800s, but if I had more testosterone I might have run faster. In no way have I been robbed of gold.

Paging the IAAF/CAS wrote:

Where have we got to as regards this summer track season given all the delays? and the six month backdating rule? Is the backdating clock already running? Hard to follow. Seems to me everyone can run this summer, at this point.

At this point everyone can run as the IAAF DSD regulations have been blocked by the Semenya trial before the CAS. Should the IAAF win the Semenya case, then the six month clock starts ticking. The IAAF has stated that athletes with relevant DSDs will be allowed to run in Doha, provided they start on suppressive therapy within one week of a CAS decision in favor of the IAAF.

Should Semenya win her CAS case, then DSD athletes will not be restricted for the foreseeable future.

D3 Girl Runner wrote:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/olympic-silver-medallist-also-has-testosterone-condition-1.4383568

And literally no one is surprised.

Melissa Bishop was robbed of gold.

I don't see why high testosterone is an issue in women's sport if it is naturally occurring and they have only XX chromosomes .

tgirl wrote:

Paging the IAAF/CAS wrote:

Where have we got to as regards this summer track season given all the delays? and the six month backdating rule? Is the backdating clock already running? Hard to follow. Seems to me everyone can run this summer, at this point.

At this point everyone can run as the IAAF DSD regulations have been blocked by the Semenya trial before the CAS. Should the IAAF win the Semenya case, then the six month clock starts ticking. The IAAF has stated that athletes with relevant DSDs will be allowed to run in Doha, provided they start on suppressive therapy within one week of a CAS decision in favor of the IAAF.

Should Semenya win her CAS case, then DSD athletes will not be restricted for the foreseeable future.

thanks

El Keniano wrote:

VIPAM wrote:

..

This is old news...so is the Kenyan (forhot her name but shes been Kenya's top 800 runner last 2 years and looks and sounds more manly them Caster SERIOUSLY) who burst onto the scene 2-3 years ago.

Say what you want about Margaret Wambui, but she does not sound manly. Here’s a clip of her speaking Swahili, can’t find one in English but I’m sure they are out there. Her voice doesn’t give anything away.

https://youtu.be/Ap0XOsfdRu4

Sounded like English to me from @0.30